Joe Amodei: Why Are Documentaries So Hard to Sell?

If documentaries are one of the hardest films to sell, why does anyone keep making them?

Joe Amodei has spent his whole career releasing documentaries, and he doesn't sugarcoat it: they will always be "one of the hardest genres to sell." Christian Taylor loves them, and so does everyone she talks to, so she asks him why. His theory is that the average American consumer is overwhelmed by news, on channels that run it all day, and wants to escape. Most documentaries aren't happy-ending stories. And the ones festivals choose, he says, are often the hardest stories of all, which turns people off documentaries even more. Then he gives the reason he does it anyway.

In Episode 199, the second of two parts recorded after Cannes, Christian leads the conversation, with Jason Rugg on hand to close the show, and Joe says what he learned at the market. Order the rosé, he jokes, and don't eat the steak. The real change is that streamers and premium cable channels are licensing fewer outside films, so distributors put films up on transactional and free, ad-supported sites sooner. Platforms like Tubi, Pluto, Amazon and iTunes now take more foreign-language films, from Italy, Germany, France and Bollywood, so Joe walks into booths he once passed by. Competitors are friends at a market, he says, and this year their conversations were tough. Thirty percent of the buyers he knows have lost their jobs. He's bewildered when filmmakers tell him they spent two million dollars on a movie, money he knows they'll never earn back, and he reminds them what Hollywood learned in the 1950s, when studios tried 3D and CinemaScope to win audiences back: "The only thing that worked was good movies."

Then what sells. True crime still rules, though Joe would rather see series that honor the people killed than make the killers household names. Horror is a mainstay, with a lot of bad horror being made. Faith-based films are hot; he'd put them next to horror, and he points to Jesus Revolution. Christian asks if he gets depressed. "You do this because you love it," Joe says, and Christian adds, "I do it because I can't not do it." Joe then makes his case for documentaries. One filmmaker makes the 15th series about Ted Bundy, and victims' families relive it. Another, he says, is getting on a plane tomorrow with World War II veterans, going to Normandy. "You tell me the difference," Joe says. "That's the power of really good documentaries." Christian is that filmmaker: a Delta charter is taking 50 World War II veterans back to Normandy, inspired by The Girl Who Wore Freedom, and her second son told her he joined the Army because of the film.

Full disclosure: since 2022, Joe's company, Virgil Films, has distributed Christian's film The Girl Who Wore Freedom, and it now sponsors Documentary First. This 2023 episode has no sponsor read.

In this episode, you'll learn:

• Joe's tongue-in-cheek advice for your first Cannes market
• Why films go to transactional and free streaming sites sooner than they used to
• Why foreign-language films are getting a bigger chance with US platforms
• How Netflix scouts films in other countries before they reach the markets
• How to book meetings at a film market, and why competitors are friends there
• Why 30% of the buyers Joe knows lost their jobs
• What Hollywood learned in the 1950s about winning audiences back
• Which genres were selling in 2023: true crime, horror and faith-based films
• Joe's theory of why documentaries are so hard to sell
• Why Joe and Christian keep making and releasing documentaries anyway

CHAPTERS

0:00 What Joe Learned at Cannes

4:54 Who Watches Foreign Films?

7:12 Inside the Market Meetings

10:05 Budgets in a Tough Year

13:04 True Crime, Horror and Faith

17:08 Hard to Sell, Worth Making

22:37 Ted Bundy or Normandy

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS

Why are documentaries hard to sell?

Joe Amodei of Virgil Films, who has released documentaries his whole career, says they will always be one of the hardest genres to sell. His theory is that viewers are overwhelmed by news and want to escape, and most documentaries are not happy-ending stories. He adds that festival programmers tend to pick the hardest stories, which turns some audiences off documentaries even more.

What film genres sell best?

Speaking in 2023, after the Cannes market, Joe Amodei said true crime still rules, horror has always been a mainstay but there is a lot of bad horror being made, and faith-based films are hot. He put faith-based films next to horror, pointing to Jesus Revolution. He also mentioned teen romances and comedies and Hallmark-style family films, and warned that whatever is hot today may not be hot when your film is done.

How have film markets changed for foreign-language films?

Joe Amodei says that because streamers and premium cable license fewer outside films, distributors build their business around transactional and free, ad-supported sites. Platforms such as Tubi, Pluto, Amazon and iTunes are accepting more films from Italy, Germany, France and India, so he now meets with foreign sellers he once would have skipped. Netflix, he notes, has people in each country who often see those films first.

Why make documentaries if they don't make money?

On Documentary First, Joe Amodei says you do it because you love it, and Christian Taylor adds that she can't not do it. Joe contrasts the 15th series about a serial killer, which reopens victims' families' pain, with a documentary that takes World War II veterans back to Normandy. "That's the power of really good documentaries," he says. Every once in a while, he adds, one also strikes gold.

LISTEN AND FOLLOW

Listen and subscribe wherever you get podcasts: https://pod.fo/e/4a8009

Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@documentaryfirst

SUPPORT THE SHOW

Join our community on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/c/DocumentaryFirst

CONNECT WITH DOCUMENTARY FIRST

All platforms: https://linktr.ee/doc1st

Christian Taylor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meetchristiantaylor

ABOUT THE GUEST

Joe Amodei

Founder of Virgil Films and Entertainment; director of Cold War in Philly

Joe Amodei has worked in film distribution for more than 40 years, starting in home video retail in Philadelphia. In 2000 he became president of USA Home Entertainment (Traffic, Being John Malkovich, Gosford Park), and he went on to create Virgil Films and Entertainment, whose releases include Super Size Me, Restrepo, Forks Over Knives and Glen Campbell: I'll Be Me. He won a 2020 New York Emmy for The Real Bedford Falls: It's a Wonderful Life. In 2026 he released his first film as a director, Cold War in Philly: Flyers vs Russia 1976.

Virgil Films: https://virgilfilms.com

Cold War in Philly: https://coldwarinphilly.com

Virgil Films on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/virgilfilms

Virgil Films on X: https://x.com/VirgilFilms

Virgil Films on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/VirgilFilms

ABOUT VIRGIL FILMS

Virgil Films and Entertainment is an independent distributor of documentaries and independent features. It releases only a few films a month so it can work each one with its filmmaker.

ABOUT DOCUMENTARY FIRST

Documentary First is a weekly podcast about the people behind documentaries and how the work changed them. Host Christian Taylor, director of the award-winning The Girl Who Wore Freedom, talks with filmmakers from Ken Burns to first-time directors. Listen Notes ranks the show in the top 5% of all podcasts worldwide.

THE DISTRIBUTION SERIES

• Episode 128, Joe's first visit, from a video store to Super Size Me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6zHmPe97nI
• Episode 194, five film business tips: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRVSc0YRizE
• Episode 198, Cannes part one, the film market: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mUqEAz87js
• Episode 216, getting distributed part one, who can you trust: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tLfror_514
• Episode 218, getting distributed part two, distribution expenses: