Navigating the Quality and Cap Curves

Navigating the Quality and Cap Curves

A later cycle economy and continued uncertainty means that investors should be remain wary of cyclicals such as small caps, explains Mike Wilson, our CIO and Chief US Equity Strategist.


----- Transcript -----


Welcome to Thoughts on the Market. I'm Mike Wilson, Morgan Stanley’s CIO and Chief US Equity Strategist. Along with my colleagues bringing you a variety of perspectives, today I'll be talking about slowing growth in the context of high valuations.

It's Tuesday, July 30th at 3pm in New York.

So, let’s get after it.

Over the past few weeks, the equity markets have taken on a different complexion with the mega cap stocks lagging and lower quality small caps doing better. What does this mean for investor portfolios? And is the market telling us something about future fundamentals? In our view, we think most of this rotation is due to the de-grossing that is occurring within portfolios that are overweight large cap quality growth and underweight lower quality and smaller cap names.

We have long been in the camp that large cap quality has been the place to be – for equity investors – as opposed to diving down the quality and cap curves. That continues to be the case; though we are watching the fundamental and technical backdrop for small caps closely, and we’re respectful of the pace of the recent move in the space.

For now, however, we continue to think the better risk/reward is to stay up the quality curve and avoid the more cyclical parts in the market like small caps. Our rationale for such positioning is simple — in a later cycle economy where growth is softening or not translating into earnings growth for most companies, large cap quality outperforms.

Exacerbating the many imbalances across the economy is a bloated fiscal budget deficit. In our view, there are diminishing returns to fiscal spending when it starts to crowd out private companies and consumers. As I have been discussing for the past year, this crowding out has contributed to the bifurcation of performance in both the economy and equity markets, while potentially keeping the Fed's Interest rate policy tighter than it would have been otherwise.

While the macro data has been mixed, there is a growing debate around the actual strength of the labor market with the household survey painting a weaker picture than the non-farm payroll data which is based on employer surveys. The bottom line is that we are in a stable, but decelerating late cycle economy from a macro data standpoint. However, on the micro front, the data has not been as stable and is showing a more meaningful deterioration in growth; particularly as it relates to the consumer.

More specifically, earnings revision breadth has broken down recently for many of the cyclical parts of the market. Financials has been a bright spot here but that may be short-lived if the consumer continues to weaken. We continue to favor quality but with a greater focus on defensive sectors like utilities, staples and REITs as opposed to growthier ones like technology. The issue with the growth stocks is valuations and the quality of the earnings for some of the mega cap tech stocks.

The other variable weighing on stocks at the moment is valuations which remain in the top decile of the past 20 years. It’s worth noting that valuations are very sensitive to earnings revisions breadth. The last time revision breadth rolled over into negative territory was last fall. Between July and October 2023, the market multiple declined from 20x to 17x. Two weeks ago, this multiple was 22x and is now 21x. If earnings revisions continue to fade as we expect, it’s likely these valuations have further to fall. With our 12-month base case target multiple at 19x, the risk reward for equities broadly remains quite unfavorable at the moment.

Thanks for listening. If you enjoy the podcast, leave us a review wherever you listen, and share Thoughts on the Market with a friend or colleague today.

Episoder(1507)

Michael Zezas: Inside the Municipal Bond Liquidity Trap

Michael Zezas: Inside the Municipal Bond Liquidity Trap

When markets get volatile, strange things start to happen in markets you might not expect. That's both a sign of stress, and in some cases, a sign of opportunity.

17 Mar 20202min

Mike Wilson: The End of The Cyclical Bear Market?

Mike Wilson: The End of The Cyclical Bear Market?

Just three months ago, market expectations were likely overoptimistic. That's how tops are made. Today, they are maybe too pessimistic… and that's how bottoms are made.

16 Mar 20204min

Andrew Sheets: The Comfort of Market Patterns

Andrew Sheets: The Comfort of Market Patterns

Although current market swings suggest that we are in serious, unpredictable times, a look through market history may reveal where we’re headed next.

13 Mar 20203min

Michael Zezas: Oil Exporter Tensions Add to Market Worries

Michael Zezas: Oil Exporter Tensions Add to Market Worries

The dual challenges of the coronavirus and the collapse of the OPEC plus arrangement intensifies the need for a fiscal response from Washington. Head of Public Policy Research Michael Zezas explains.

11 Mar 20202min

Special Episode: The Road Ahead

Special Episode: The Road Ahead

Investors reacted strongly as oil prices and coronavirus worries disrupted markets. Chief Cross-Asset Strategist Andrew Sheets and Chief U.S. Economist Ellen Zentner debate what’s next.

10 Mar 20208min

Mike Wilson: Revisiting the Rolling Bear Market

Mike Wilson: Revisiting the Rolling Bear Market

The recent correction in equity markets suggests that the fourth quarter rally in 2019 may have been a false breakout—and the rolling bear has unfinished business.

9 Mar 20204min

Andrew Sheets: Patience as an Investing Virtue

Andrew Sheets: Patience as an Investing Virtue

Two competing forces—hopes for further central bank moves vs. coronavirus uncertainty—are driving a notable rise in volatility. What signal should investors watch for signs of a potential rebound?

6 Mar 20202min

Michael Zezas: Lessons from Super Tuesday

Michael Zezas: Lessons from Super Tuesday

From an investment standpoint, are there lessons to be learned from Joe Biden’s strong showing on Super Tuesday? Yes, but not the ones you might think.

4 Mar 20203min

Populært innen Business og økonomi

stopp-verden
dine-penger-pengeradet
lydartikler-fra-aftenposten
e24-podden
rss-penger-polser-og-politikk
rss-borsmorgen-okonominyhetene
finansredaksjonen
pengepodden-2
livet-pa-veien-med-jan-erik-larssen
tid-er-penger-en-podcast-med-peter-warren
stormkast-med-valebrokk-stordalen
morgenkaffen-med-finansavisen
okonomiamatorene
utbytte
rss-rettssikkerhet-bak-fasaden-pa-rettsstaten-norge-en-podcast-av-sonia-loinsworth
rss-sunn-okonomi
lederpodden
pengesnakk
rss-fa-makro
rss-andelige-tanker-med-camillo