Writing Through the Pain: Martina Gruppo's Journey to Healing and Empowerment

In this powerful episode of Healthy Mind, Healthy Life, host Avik Chakraborty welcomes Martina Gruppo, a newly published English author whose memoir sheds light on her decades-long entanglement with a covert narcissist. Martina shares her deeply personal journey of overcoming immense challenges, including infertility, cancer, and the psychological scars left by an abusive relationship. Through the transformative power of writing, Martina found not only peace but also the strength to reclaim her life. Join us as we explore how reliving trauma through storytelling can lead to healing and self-empowerment, offering hope and inspiration to those facing similar battles.----more----

00:04:05.370 --> 00:04:17.210 Avik Chakraborty: Hello! And welcome to another episode of healthy mind, healthy life, where we explore the deep and often difficult journeys of healing, resilience and self discovery.

52 00:04:17.519 --> 00:04:26.900 Avik Chakraborty: I'm your host, awick. And today we are diving into the transmitive power of writing as a tool for overcoming the trauma.

53 00:04:27.180 --> 00:04:29.750 Avik Chakraborty: Our guest today is Martina

54 00:04:29.820 --> 00:04:31.499 Avik Chakraborty: so welcome to the show, Martina.

55 00:04:31.760 --> 00:04:34.749 Martina Gruppo: Hi, thank you very much for having me as a guest.

56 00:04:35.380 --> 00:04:42.139 Avik Chakraborty: Lovely, lovely, so, Martina, like, before we start our conversation today, I would quickly love to introduce you to all of our listeners that

57 00:04:42.560 --> 00:04:54.663 Avik Chakraborty: the listeners. Martina is a newly published English author who has courageously shared her life story in her memoir. So her book Details

58 00:04:55.200 --> 00:05:01.309 Avik Chakraborty: the Decades she spent entangled with a covert narcissist.

59 00:05:01.330 --> 00:05:08.519 Avik Chakraborty: revealing how a lack of boundaries made her a prime target for this kind of abuse.

60 00:05:08.840 --> 00:05:23.189 Avik Chakraborty: So, despite facing the immense challenges from the infertility and the cancer to the psychological scars of an abusive relationships. Martina has continually

61 00:05:23.480 --> 00:05:24.300 Avik Chakraborty: big

62 00:05:24.490 --> 00:05:28.040 Avik Chakraborty: posted up and found the new strength.

63 00:05:28.870 --> 00:05:39.880 Avik Chakraborty: So she now lives south of Rome, running a successful B, 2 B teaching English online and managing a thriving airbnb.

64 00:05:40.480 --> 00:05:49.290 Avik Chakraborty: It's really awesome, right? So her story is one of the humor, heartbreak, and ultimately healing.

65 00:05:50.240 --> 00:06:04.079 Avik Chakraborty: So join us as we explore how, relieving her trauma through writing, not only brought Martina peace, but also empowered her to reclaim her life. So, without further ado, welcome again to the show. Martina.

66 00:06:04.420 --> 00:06:10.816 Martina Gruppo: Okay, thank you. That's quite an introduction. Thank you very much.

67 00:06:13.539 --> 00:06:14.199 Avik Chakraborty: Yeah.

68 00:06:14.630 --> 00:06:17.860 Martina Gruppo: So. Yes, sorry. Sorry. Sorry I didn't.

69 00:06:17.860 --> 00:06:27.140 Avik Chakraborty: Okay. So so, Martina, like I, I was reading your bio, and from there I have 2 things in my mind. So I thought like, I'll I'll I'll quickly

70 00:06:27.670 --> 00:06:46.759 Avik Chakraborty: discuss this while we are on the show. So so your memoir is deeply, deeply personal, and the raw so if you can share what initially inspired you to start writing about your experiences with the covert night narcissist.

71 00:06:48.039 --> 00:07:02.889 Martina Gruppo: Well, for me it was. It was a way of explaining what had happened, and initially I wasn't even interested in writing a book. It started out as a blog. A pretty angry

72 00:07:03.740 --> 00:07:32.149 Martina Gruppo: you know, an a an angry insight insightful because it was an also very present book that a blog that I was writing because I needed to try and understand what I'd actually been through for previous decade. And indeed, you know the time before that, and it started. It started out as just a way of writing down things, you know. Is this what happened? And then sort of seeing it for what it really was.

73 00:07:32.150 --> 00:07:45.829 Martina Gruppo: and the writing was helping me. I think I wrote about it in the book, see through, see things almost clearly. It was as if I was speaking another language. I was starting to understand what had actually happened to me.

74 00:07:46.210 --> 00:07:48.370 Martina Gruppo: and it was horrible.

75 00:07:48.380 --> 00:07:53.360 Martina Gruppo: really traumatic, because everything that you believe.

76 00:07:53.570 --> 00:07:53.970 Avik Chakraborty: Yeah.

77 00:07:53.970 --> 00:08:02.519 Martina Gruppo: That you had believed in for your entire life. Suddenly you see through, you see it clearly, and you see what it really is.

78 00:08:02.530 --> 00:08:28.070 Martina Gruppo: And gradually I through the writing I was expressing myself, and I was going through. It's like looking. I guess it's like looking at an album of photographs. Very old photographs and looking at them and thinking, Oh, gosh! I didn't remember. Oh, no, now I remember that. But you see something more clearly. I mean, it's not as pleasant as looking at photographs, because obviously the real, the realistic situation is that

79 00:08:29.190 --> 00:08:35.309 Martina Gruppo: is that what you thought you were living through was a lie basically.

80 00:08:36.080 --> 00:08:37.659 Avik Chakraborty: Understood. Understood.

81 00:08:38.070 --> 00:08:40.986 Avik Chakraborty: So okay. And and

82 00:08:42.380 --> 00:08:45.643 Avik Chakraborty: also, when we're talking about this. So

83 00:08:47.758 --> 00:08:56.061 Avik Chakraborty: writing often, I mean, writing can often be a kind of carthratic process. Right? So

84 00:08:56.870 --> 00:09:06.249 Avik Chakraborty: how did revisiting such painful memories impact you emotionally while you writing your book.

85 00:09:06.880 --> 00:09:16.469 Martina Gruppo: Well, it was interesting, because when I decided to actually write, start writing the book, I went right back to the very, very beginning of us, if you like, because.

86 00:09:16.670 --> 00:09:29.910 Martina Gruppo: you know, it seems to be very one sided when I was writing the book, but sorry when I was writing the blog. I was lashing out when I wrote the book. I had to start from a completely different perspective, because otherwise

87 00:09:30.280 --> 00:09:50.989 Martina Gruppo: how could anybody be convinced? In the same way I was convinced by him, unless they could see what I saw from the very beginning. So, even though it was painful to revisit that time, I had to show the reader why I fell for somebody like him. So that cathartic process started happening at the

88 00:09:51.560 --> 00:09:58.440 Martina Gruppo: very slowly at the beginning of writing the book because I had to describe who I was, and I guess

89 00:09:58.790 --> 00:10:11.160 Martina Gruppo: I guess in some way you take on a certain amount of responsibility because of the fact that you have lower boundaries, and that's the way they get in. When I say they, I mean sort of a narcissistic

90 00:10:11.220 --> 00:10:14.999 Martina Gruppo: person can invigo themselves into your life.

91 00:10:15.260 --> 00:10:23.919 Martina Gruppo: but there has to be a certain amount of allowance, because you have such low boundaries. Do you see what I mean? You know, in terms of

92 00:10:24.630 --> 00:10:46.600 Martina Gruppo: not being able to say no, not being, you know, being swayed by guilt, being open to brainwashing, emotional brainwashing in a way, I think you know. That's that's what happens. But you have to show the reader from the very start how and why you fell for such a thing, because it's almost unbelievable as you work your way through it.

93 00:10:47.640 --> 00:10:50.609 Avik Chakraborty: Exactly. That's very, very true. Yeah, yeah.

94 00:10:51.220 --> 00:11:07.379 Avik Chakraborty: And also at the same time, like you mentioned that the process of writing helped you establish those boundaries. So if you can also talk about this experience like shifted your ability to say no when something didn't feel right.

95 00:11:08.750 --> 00:11:12.719 Martina Gruppo: Yeah, that's that's I have to say, that's a work in progress.

96 00:11:12.720 --> 00:11:14.520 Avik Chakraborty: Yeah.

97 00:11:14.520 --> 00:11:15.910 Martina Gruppo: The very beginning.

98 00:11:15.910 --> 00:11:16.410 Avik Chakraborty: Hmm.

99 00:11:16.410 --> 00:11:41.450 Martina Gruppo: When when you're susceptible to this kind of abuse, I think it's because you tend to be a people pleaser, you want everything to be right, and they capitalize on that kind of thing. And also I think there's been quite a but it's age old, isn't it, that you don't put yourself first.st I think people are doing that more and more now, and certainly, you know, more recently in the new generations.

100 00:11:41.450 --> 00:11:53.960 Martina Gruppo: But I I think my generation. It felt that if you put yourself 1st it was almost a selfish thing. You couldn't necessarily prioritise your needs and wants. You had to put other people first, st

101 00:11:54.300 --> 00:12:08.520 Martina Gruppo: and it took me a long, long time. It was almost a process of brain training to to say to myself, No, you are actually allowed to say no, or you shouldn't have gone along with that, or that didn't make you happy.

102 00:12:08.670 --> 00:12:13.460 Martina Gruppo: And I think since the separation, or since leaving the relationship

103 00:12:14.615 --> 00:12:23.259 Martina Gruppo: I've actually enjoyed, and it doesn't have to be anything huge, and it doesn't have to be at the expense of anybody else. But just

104 00:12:23.780 --> 00:12:42.340 Martina Gruppo: being some of the time, you know, just just doing things for me, doing things that I like doing, saying yes, or meeting friends, or or maybe not meeting anybody, maybe just being on my own for a bit. You know, all of these things are about prioritizing yourself, I guess.

105 00:12:42.500 --> 00:12:44.959 Martina Gruppo: Does that answer the question? Yeah.

106 00:12:46.090 --> 00:12:46.930 Avik Chakraborty: You know what I mean.

107 00:12:47.050 --> 00:12:55.110 Avik Chakraborty: So also, like your story, is filled with the moments of the resilience, humor, and the faith. So.

108 00:12:56.620 --> 00:13:01.069 Avik Chakraborty: How have these elements played a role in your healing journey?

109 00:13:02.680 --> 00:13:08.249 Martina Gruppo: In in terms of the writing, you mean. Well, the writing was was

110 00:13:08.860 --> 00:13:18.449 Martina Gruppo: paramount. It was everything I mean. I I had to motivate, motivate myself to get up in the morning and to go and write several chapters of what was

111 00:13:18.690 --> 00:13:25.739 Martina Gruppo: really emotional. Tough stuff. You know it was. It was difficult, and sometimes I would actually have to.

112 00:13:25.760 --> 00:13:35.040 Martina Gruppo: I would push away the laptop that I was writing on, because it was so difficult reading back on the words, you know, and seeing what I'd actually gone through.

113 00:13:35.270 --> 00:13:51.890 Martina Gruppo: But also the more I wrote the more and the more I edited, because editing plays a huge part in it, but the more you sort of work work around it. It is a form of therapy. It was certainly a form of therapy for me, and it was. It was amazing

114 00:13:52.030 --> 00:13:57.619 Martina Gruppo: and difficult and painful. But most of all it was amazing to be able to get the story out there.

115 00:13:57.766 --> 00:13:58.060 Avik Chakraborty: To the.

116 00:13:58.060 --> 00:13:58.920 Martina Gruppo: Page.

117 00:13:59.260 --> 00:13:59.830 Avik Chakraborty: True

118 00:14:01.970 --> 00:14:02.745 Avik Chakraborty: and

119 00:14:03.840 --> 00:14:13.799 Avik Chakraborty: So in the book you discuss how lack of boundaries made you vulnerable to the narcissistic abuse. So

120 00:14:13.840 --> 00:14:18.419 Avik Chakraborty: what advice would you give to someone who might be in a similar situation.

121 00:14:21.440 --> 00:14:28.399 Martina Gruppo: It's it's a bit like being. I don't know, deciding that you need to lose some weight.

122 00:14:28.640 --> 00:14:41.080 Martina Gruppo: and you have to train yourself into, you know, more exercise, healthier eating, you know it's it's a way of changing. It's almost like changing your lifestyle. Only this is

123 00:14:41.720 --> 00:14:50.199 Martina Gruppo: changing a part of your brain that has always bent over backwards, if you like. If you're constantly

124 00:14:50.740 --> 00:14:53.849 Martina Gruppo: putting other people first, st there will

125 00:14:54.000 --> 00:14:56.120 Martina Gruppo: come a breaking point where you're

126 00:14:56.910 --> 00:14:58.509 Martina Gruppo: you're not happy.

127 00:14:58.710 --> 00:15:10.780 Martina Gruppo: and it's you know, that you're not happy because of the fact that you I I don't quite. It's hard to say, I mean for me, for my advice for anybody going through this kind of situation

128 00:15:10.830 --> 00:15:21.700 Martina Gruppo: is very slowly start to look at what makes you happy. It's not a selfish thing to say that it's not a selfish thing to want your needs to be met.

129 00:15:21.730 --> 00:15:30.090 Martina Gruppo: and it could be anything from the freedom to go for a walk without feeling guilty, to wearing whatever clothes you want to wear

130 00:15:30.100 --> 00:15:41.750 Martina Gruppo: to having your hair. However, you want to have your hair style without it being criticised by somebody else, and that person could be criticising it with a smile on their face.

131 00:15:42.370 --> 00:15:45.160 Martina Gruppo: But if it doesn't make you feel good.

132 00:15:45.270 --> 00:15:49.219 Martina Gruppo: there's something there's something that needs to change there.

133 00:15:49.480 --> 00:15:50.659 Martina Gruppo: if you see but.

134 00:15:52.360 --> 00:15:53.170 Avik Chakraborty: Understood

135 00:15:55.010 --> 00:15:56.109 Avik Chakraborty: also, like

136 00:15:57.510 --> 00:15:58.516 Avik Chakraborty: I mean,

137 00:15:59.060 --> 00:16:00.569 Avik Chakraborty: beyond the writing.

138 00:16:01.250 --> 00:16:10.929 Avik Chakraborty: What are the other practices? Or maybe the activities that have been essential in your healing and the recovery process.

139 00:16:11.630 --> 00:16:14.379 Martina Gruppo: Sorry. Could you repeat that I didn't quite get that.

140 00:16:14.380 --> 00:16:16.250 Avik Chakraborty: Yeah, I mean, beyond writing.

141 00:16:16.330 --> 00:16:24.250 Avik Chakraborty: What are other activities or the practices were most essential in your healing and the recovery process.

142 00:16:24.610 --> 00:16:26.809 Martina Gruppo: Oh, gosh! Saying yes.

143 00:16:26.880 --> 00:16:48.019 Martina Gruppo: saying yes, and saying No, you know it. I think there's things so in the in the general healing process there are so many things that I have done which I do to to just make myself feel better. Plants, plants play huge role. My life, and I love my garden, and I love my plants.

144 00:16:48.090 --> 00:16:50.490 Martina Gruppo: Exercise swimming.

145 00:16:50.820 --> 00:17:01.019 Martina Gruppo: It just frees your brain just to to not think just to switch off for a little bit saying yes to spontaneous plans.

146 00:17:01.080 --> 00:17:23.910 Martina Gruppo: saying, buying what I want to buy in the supermarket without being told what to buy, or you know the usual stuff. It's it's it's about not being controlled. It's a it's about being in control of my own, of what I want to do and how I want to do it. That's I think, yeah, all of those are are just really important.

147 00:17:25.710 --> 00:17:27.279 Avik Chakraborty: Okay, okay?

148 00:17:28.530 --> 00:17:29.770 Avik Chakraborty: And

149 00:17:30.210 --> 00:17:31.150 Avik Chakraborty: so

150 00:17:31.750 --> 00:17:34.629 Avik Chakraborty: also, if you, if if you talk about

151 00:17:35.630 --> 00:17:36.949 Avik Chakraborty: be of.

152 00:17:37.170 --> 00:17:42.029 Avik Chakraborty: you have lived through a variety of challenges. So

153 00:17:42.700 --> 00:17:48.219 Avik Chakraborty: so, and you maintain a strong sense of optimism and faith in a better future.

154 00:17:48.290 --> 00:17:51.060 Avik Chakraborty: So what keeps you hopefully.

155 00:17:53.210 --> 00:18:01.349 Martina Gruppo: I don't. I don't think he destroyed me. I don't think he managed to destroy me. I think I I've always maintained

156 00:18:02.070 --> 00:18:21.510 Martina Gruppo: eternal optimism. I have a really decent work. Ethic. I like making people happy, but not to the point that it makes me unhappy. I think that's been a real change in me that if something doesn't feel right, then I don't do it.

157 00:18:21.620 --> 00:18:30.580 Martina Gruppo: And I don't think that that makes me selfish. I just think it's about putting certain boundaries in place where you don't want to be

158 00:18:30.940 --> 00:18:47.579 Martina Gruppo: always saying yes, because I think I think the problem is, if you always say yes to everything and to everybody. In the end you forget about yourself. I think I might have gone off on a tangent there. Sorry, but I I'm a positive person. I really

159 00:18:47.970 --> 00:18:54.097 Martina Gruppo: I think the best is yet to come. Gosh! I hope the best is yet to come. I mean,

160 00:18:54.500 --> 00:19:00.759 Martina Gruppo: cancer was a leveler. I've you know I went through cancer. But that was a long time ago, and I just

161 00:19:00.810 --> 00:19:02.849 Martina Gruppo: I just feel as though

162 00:19:03.560 --> 00:19:17.350 Martina Gruppo: there's so much out there to life. There is so much to enjoy, and there is so much to be happy about. And you've just got to kind of pick and choose the right ones the right things to make you happy. I think that's what

163 00:19:17.440 --> 00:19:28.659 Martina Gruppo: I think. That's how I really feel going forward. And I'm not scared. I'm not scared of doing things. I think I've been through the scariest time at least. I hope so.

164 00:19:29.280 --> 00:19:31.280 Avik Chakraborty: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.

165 00:19:31.780 --> 00:19:37.660 Avik Chakraborty: Oh, lovely. So finally, what message do you hope? Readers take away from your book.

166 00:19:37.710 --> 00:19:39.630 Avik Chakraborty: especially those

167 00:19:39.730 --> 00:19:44.159 Avik Chakraborty: who may be struggling with their own experiences of the trauma and the abuse.

168 00:19:45.760 --> 00:19:55.020 Martina Gruppo: My absolute and honest reason for writing that book was because I couldn't find any other personal accounts

169 00:19:55.160 --> 00:20:08.129 Martina Gruppo: written down book like that. I couldn't find anything anywhere that I could relate to. I found an awful lot of stuff online. And and you know, psychological books. There's plenty of papers and things like that out there.

170 00:20:08.240 --> 00:20:17.149 Martina Gruppo: What I really wanted to do was to show people that anybody who is going through something like this, you're not on your own.

171 00:20:17.640 --> 00:20:20.230 Martina Gruppo: And you aren't going mad.

172 00:20:21.110 --> 00:20:26.830 Martina Gruppo: and they don't. They aren't actually that original in what they do.

173 00:20:26.870 --> 00:20:37.729 Martina Gruppo: because I've had so much feedback from the book, which has been quite incredible where people have said to me, Oh, my goodness! I could be reading my own story, or

174 00:20:37.760 --> 00:20:48.620 Martina Gruppo: that's exactly what happened to me, and I think the more we realize that these words are written, for people who are going through exactly the same thing

175 00:20:48.800 --> 00:20:57.019 Martina Gruppo: will help empower. People will help people feel stronger to to actually say, Yeah, I'm not actually going to put up with this anymore.

176 00:20:57.290 --> 00:21:05.570 Martina Gruppo: And it and it's not about running away from something. It's about saying I'm not okay with this. This isn't the right way to get behave.

177 00:21:05.700 --> 00:21:19.619 Martina Gruppo: and I think the one thing that I really regret is I didn't trust my instincts, my my physical instincts, because your body knows your body knows even before your mind or your heart. Your body is, is

178 00:21:20.040 --> 00:21:25.139 Martina Gruppo: is sparking off warning signals all of the time. Trust trust yourself

179 00:21:25.240 --> 00:21:35.070 Martina Gruppo: because I think that's the key thing. You really need to trust what you really know what's going on in your head and your mind, and if anybody

180 00:21:35.340 --> 00:22:03.559 Martina Gruppo: gets anything from this, I mean the book isn't all doom and gloom. There's plenty of, you know, humor and and dark black humor and anecdotes, and you know, and my sort of view on life in general. But I what I would like more than anything is for it to resonate with people where they say, Yes, yeah, that happened to me. I am not alone in this. I think that's what I want more than anything.

181 00:22:03.940 --> 00:22:15.333 Avik Chakraborty: Lovely, lovely, that's really great, great. So thank you, Martina, for sharing your powerful story with us today, and your journey from trauma to healing is an inspirational

182 00:22:16.090 --> 00:22:21.349 Avik Chakraborty: To anyone who's faced familiar, I mean similar challenges and the struggles.

183 00:22:21.410 --> 00:22:24.129 Avik Chakraborty: And for those who are listening.

184 00:22:24.240 --> 00:22:38.859 Avik Chakraborty: If Martina's story resonate with you. I encourage you to check out her memoir, where you will find not only a deeply honest account of her experiences, but also a testament to the resilience of the human spirit.

185 00:22:39.200 --> 00:22:45.499 Avik Chakraborty: So remember that setting boundaries and saying No to yourself, are crucial steps in reclaiming your life. So

186 00:22:45.610 --> 00:22:52.070 Avik Chakraborty: stay tuned for more episodes of healthy mind and healthy life, where we continue to explore the stories of courage.

187 00:22:52.130 --> 00:23:00.759 Avik Chakraborty: transformation, and pursuit of a better and healthier life. So until next time. Take care of your mind, body, and the soul. Thank you so much.

188 00:23:01.240 --> 00:23:04.699 Martina Gruppo: Thank you very much. Thank you for letting me be a guest on your.