Ep. 142: Sylvana Caloni - Failure has a Purpose

About Sylvana Caloni: https://sylvanacaloni.com/about-me/

Humble Crumbles: Savouring the crumbs of wisdom from the rise and fall of Humble Pie:

• https://sylvanacaloni.com/humble-crumbles/
• https://www.amazon.com/HUMBLE-CRUMBLES-Savouring-crumbs-wisdom/dp/1916328571/
• https://sylvanacaloni.com/book-reviews/
• https://sylvanacaloni.com/testimonials-2/

FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Mitch: (00:05)
Welcome back to count me in, IMA's podcast about all things affecting the accounting and finance world. I'm your host Mitch Roshong and today you will hear from Sylvana Caloni, as she joins us for episode 142 of our series. Sylvana is a former equities fund manager, a professional certified coach and author of the book, Humble Crumbles. She was an executive vice president when she was privileged to partner with an executive coach. She is now a leadership consultant committed to paying it forward by enabling clients to make an impact at their companies and in their communities. In this conversation, you will hear Sylvana discuss the value of failure, the benefits of clear communication and ways to propel business. Let's head over and listen to her now.

Adam: (00:57)
Sylvana, I just want to thank you so much for coming on the count me in podcast today.

Sylvana: (01:01)
Thank you, Adam. I really appreciate the opportunity to speak with you and to explore failure and entrepreneurship and all sorts of different ideas coming from our book, Humble Crumbles.

Adam: (01:13)
So speaking of your book, Humble Crumbles, you say in that book, failure has a purpose and failure's a part of the process. So can you just start by giving us some more insight into that statement?

Sylvana: (01:25)
Yeah, absolutely. So I guess we see across different cultures and across different types of businesses, if you like and academia, that there is a fear of failure. And we, as individuals often are constrained in what we do because of that fear of failure. It may be so great that we prevent ourselves from jumping in taking the leap and starting up a business, or perhaps we have started the business, but because of that fear of failure and because of a fear of not meeting the commitments we've made to our stakeholders, et cetera, again, it constrains what we can do. So if you look at tech companies, for instance, you'll often hear the phrase fail fast, fail often, or if you look at scientific revolutions and innovations and how things have pivoted during this pandemic, actually, if there had not been failures, there wouldn't have been learning. There wouldn't have been multiple iterations. There wouldn't have been new responses to the challenges that are out there. So for Paul O'Donnell my co-author and I, the idea that failure is part of the process is that we do need to sort of remove ourselves from that view that it's first time only time, and we're going to be successful from the get go, because in fact, most successful businesses have started out in some other form in their initial iterations. And it's the ability of the business owners and entrepreneurs to be flexible and to pivot and, you know, take on constructive criticism or take on impartial advice to modify their product or service, which means that ultimately it is successful.

Adam: (03:15)
So when you look at these leaders who are having to transition and fail and become more successful, how do you, you know, how do you understand what makes them tick? What do you, what, what can we do to, to look at these people and see what can, what can cause you to fail and keep coming back and keep coming back?

Sylvana: (03:34)
It's a great point that I think one of the key points we're trying to make in Humble Crumbles it's that the failure of the business is often attributed to external factors. So someone will say, well, you know, the economic environment deteriorated or technology changed or legislation was too prohibitive. And that's true. I mean, absolutely there can be external factors that impact the success or failure of a business. But what I found when I was an equity analyst and funds manager, was that more often than not the failure of a business was to do with the owners or the leaders, the management of the companies and the problems I often saw were whether they were not self-aware. So they didn't have a sense of, okay, well what makes me tick? What, what are my drivers? What are my motivations? How do I make sense of my world? And in having that lack of self-awareness, they're not then able to engage successfully with others because they take the view that well, it's my way or the highway, or this is the way the world works. So they don't have an appreciation that their own norms, standards, practices, ways of behaving are not universal. They could differ with other people because other people have different cultural backgrounds, ethnic backgrounds, gender backgrounds, it could be a different set of, drivers within an organization. And if at what we show in the book, Humble Crumbles, and it's full title is Humble Crumbles: Savoring the Crumbs of Wisdom From The Rise and Fall of Humble Pie. We share Paul O'Donnell's story. So Paul is my co-author and Paul like me had come from the financial services world. We had both worked at Bankers Trust. So BT co. Us company. In fact, even though we were both Australians and you can hear that in my accent. So we were working in Bankers Trust in Sydney, Australia, and Paul eventually left BT and started up a couple of his own businesses. So he's a serial entrepreneur and his first couple of businesses were in what you might call financial adjacent. So they were similar types of businesses, you know, financial advisory or publishing a financial material, fundraising, that type of thing. And then he wanted to go into a business that was more real in the sense of making something so humble pie was a business that manufactured pies for the retail sector. And then ultimately also he got into wholesale. So it was, it was pies that we eat sweet and savory pies that we eat. And he came from that financial services background with the number of ways of seeing the world behaving and business traditions, if you like, or business practices that certainly worked for him, but there were others that were more relevant to financial services, but not so much to a factory where he had people in the factory kitchen making the pies or sweeping the floors or delivering the pies to the shops, et cetera. So what we found Paul was blindsided in that he just assumed for instance, that the factory workers would, like him, have a view around equity as a way of incentivizing behavior or around bonuses as a way of, you know, promoting work, et cetera. Whereas these people had different concerns, different cares, you know, for them the weekly pay pack. It was what was really important, not some notion of equity or a bonus at the end of the year. So the blind sidedness or the lack of Paul's self-awareness, which he courageously, I have to say. I mean, he fesses up basically in the book and looks at some of the errors he made with. I think, I think he's very generous and very courageous in doing that because what he's doing is he's demonstrating how sometimes the very things that we think are our strengths, if taken to an extreme can actually turn into a weakness or can turn into a vulnerability in a negative sense.

Adam: (08:00)
That almost mak...