The Foreign Policy Conversation Washington Doesn’t Want to Have

The Foreign Policy Conversation Washington Doesn’t Want to Have

Everything about the Afghanistan withdrawal is tragic. But that tragedy is the result not of the withdrawal, but the occupation, and America’s profound misjudgment of its own power and limits.

This is the foreign policy conversation much of Washington is trying desperately to avoid. The answer for the horrors of war is always more war. The bomb attack at the Kabul airport on Thursday reflects this dynamic perfectly: It’s being wielded as a cudgel by those who support a permanent American occupation of Afghanistan, guaranteeing more U.S., and Afghan, casualties in a bloody, open-ended struggle with the Taliban. We are ever alert to the costs of our inaction, or absence, but not to the harms of our presence or policies.

Robert Wright is a journalist and author of, among other things, the excellent newsletter Nonzero, where he examines the assumptions that drive America’s foreign policy. We discuss the deeper history of American involvement in Afghanistan, the limits of America’s knowledge of other nations, why the foreign policy establishment retains its authority and influence, the hollowness of humanitarian justifications for remaining in Afghanistan, the dangers of too much bipartisanship, how the withdrawal could have gone both better or much worse, the emerging consensus around a possible cold war with China and much more.

Book recommendations:

The Best and the Brightest by David Halberstam

The Hell of Good Intentions by Stephen Walt

Frankenstein by Mary Shelley

If you enjoyed this episode, check out Ezra’s recent column: “Let’s Not Pretend That the Way We Withdrew From Afghanistan Was the Problem”

You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of "The Ezra Klein Show" at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein.

Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

“The Ezra Klein Show” is produced by Annie Galvin, Jeff Geld and Rogé Karma; fact-checking by Michelle Harris; original music by Isaac Jones; mixing by Jeff Geld, audience strategy by Shannon Busta. Special thanks to Kristin Lin.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.


Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Episoder(500)

Minneapolis Reveals Where Trump's Deportation Agenda Is Going

Minneapolis Reveals Where Trump's Deportation Agenda Is Going

There’s so much more happening than what you see in online video clips.Congress gave Trump a staggering, military-size budget for immigration enforcement. And it’s hard to keep the scale of what the a...

23 Jan 1h 6min

Has Trump Achieved a Lot Less Than It Seems?

Has Trump Achieved a Lot Less Than It Seems?

We are one year into Trump’s second term. And it feels like so much has happened – more than the human mind, or the country, can absorb. But how much has Trump really accomplished? What policies have ...

16 Jan 1h 1min

Can James Talarico Reclaim Christianity for the Left?

Can James Talarico Reclaim Christianity for the Left?

State Representative James Talarico of Texas might have been our most requested guest last year. And he seemed to come out of nowhere.Talarico started breaking through with viral videos on TikTok and ...

13 Jan 1h 28min

Venezuela, Renee Good and Trump’s ‘Assault on Hope’

Venezuela, Renee Good and Trump’s ‘Assault on Hope’

The shocking events of January have sent a message: America works differently now. M. Gessen is a Times Opinion columnist and the author of books about living under autocracy, including the National B...

10 Jan 1h 5min

What Trump Wants in Venezuela

What Trump Wants in Venezuela

What is America doing in Venezuela?On Jan. 3, the Trump administration launched an operation that ended with the capture of President Nicolás Maduro, who is now in New York City on narcoterrorism and ...

6 Jan 58min

This Question Can Change Your Life

This Question Can Change Your Life

I like to start the year with a few episodes on things I’m personally working on. Not resolutions, exactly. More like intentions. Or, even better, practices.One of those practices, strange as it sound...

2 Jan 1h 5min

‘This Is Something That Traditional Economics Isn’t Prepared to Deal With’

‘This Is Something That Traditional Economics Isn’t Prepared to Deal With’

This is the strangest economy I’ve seen in my lifetime. If you just looked at the macro data — the jobs numbers, G.D.P., the stock market — things look pretty normal. But they clearly aren’t normal. T...

23 Des 20251h 17min

The Opinions: Bernie Sanders and Ruben Gallego

The Opinions: Bernie Sanders and Ruben Gallego

What will America’s story be after President Trump? My colleague David Leonhardt did a great series on that question this year, talking to a number of leading politicians. I thought two of those episo...

19 Des 20251h 8min

Populært innen Politikk og nyheter

giver-og-gjengen-vg
aftenpodden
aftenpodden-usa
forklart
popradet
stopp-verden
dine-penger-pengeradet
nokon-ma-ga
det-store-bildet
rss-gukild-johaug
lydartikler-fra-aftenposten
fotballpodden-2
hanna-de-heldige
aftenbla-bla
rss-ness
rss-espen-lee-usensurert
rss-dannet-uten-piano
rss-utenrikskomiteen-med-bogen-og-grasvik
frokostshowet-pa-p5
e24-podden