Outrage + Optimism: The Climate Podcast3 Apr 2025

Delay, Deny, Derail: Inside the fossil fuel lobby’s playbook at COPs

How have fossil fuel lobbyists become so embedded in the COP system, and how can we disrupt their involvement in domestic and international politics? This is our second episode inspired by the RSC and Good Chance Theatre’s production of Kyoto.

In this episode, Christiana Figueres, Tom Rivett-Carnac and Paul Dickinson explore the history of this often unseen influence, ask why fossil fuel lobbyists have become so embedded in the COP system, and consider what levers are emerging to disrupt their involvement in domestic and international politics.

This episode also features another panel from our live event at The Conduit, inspired by the RSC and Good Chance Theatre’s Olivier-nominated production of Kyoto, and hosted by the Financial Times’ Pilita Clark. She’s joined by climate lawyer Tessa Khan, climate finance and energy expert Kirsty Hamilton, and historian of climate change negotiations and former UNFCCC secretariat Joanna Depledge, to unpack how industry lobbyists - from oil majors to car manufacturers - used misinformation, procedural manipulation, and political influence to undermine progress in Kyoto and beyond.

So, how have fossil fuel lobby tactics changed in the years since Kyoto? Have they achieved everything they set out to? And what might the world look like if the industry had never sought to delay and derail climate negotiations - or, better yet, had taken responsibility for its role in the green transition?

This is our second episode inspired by the RSC and Good Chance Theatre’s production of Kyoto. You can listen to the first episode, Behind the Scenes at Kyoto: Drama and diplomacy on the world stage here.

Learn more:

📚Read: This Guardian article about the Greenpeace loss in North Dakota

📺Watch: Climate of Concern, a 1991 film by Shell

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Producer: Ben Weaver-Hincks

Video Producer: Caitlin Hanrahan

Exec Producer: Ellie Clifford and Dino Sofos

Commissioning Editor: Sarah Thomas

This is a Persephonica production for Global Optimism and is part of the Acast Creator Network.

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