The Bull Case For Ethereum | Tom Dunleavy & Ryan Berckmans

Gm! This week we're joined by Tom Dunleavy & Ryan Berckmans to discuss the bull case for Ethereum. We deep dive into Ethereum's big pivot, how to value the L1, should L2 tokens exist, the role of Etherealize, what's next for ETH & more. Enjoy! -- Start your day with crypto news, analysis and data from Katherine Ross. Subscribe to the Empire newsletter: https://blockworks.co/newsletter/empire?utm_source=podcasts Follow Ryan: https://x.com/ryanberckmans Follow Tom: https://x.com/dunleavy89 Follow Jason: https://x.com/JasonYanowitz Follow Santi: https://x.com/santiagoroel Follow Empire: https://twitter.com/theempirepod Join the Empire Telegram: https://t.me/+CaCYvTOB4Eg1OWJh -- Get top market insights and the latest in crypto news. Subscribe to Blockworks Daily Newsletter: https://blockworks.co/newsletter/ -- Grab your tickets to Permissionless IV. Use code EMPIRE10 for 10% off: https://blockworks.co/event/permissionless-iv -- ZKsync is the pioneering zero-knowledge technology powering the next generation of builders with limitless scale. Secured by math and designed for native interoperability, ZKsync enables an elastic, ever-expanding network of customizable chains. Deeply rooted in its mission to advance personal freedom for all, the ZKsync technology makes digital self-ownership universally available. To learn more about ZKsync, visit http://www.zksync.io -- Zenrock is a permissionless, decentralized custody network backed by 1RoundTable Partners, 10T, Maven11, and Spartan. Live on Jupiter, $ROCK is the native token for transactions within the Zenrock ecosystem and secures Zenrock’s decentralized custody network. The first application launching on Zenrock is zenBTC – yield-bearing Bitcoin on Solana. zenBTC will be live in April 2025. -- Crypto never sleeps. So we built an Al analyst that never blinks. Meet Focal by FalconX: a GenAI insights engine built for institutional crypto. Already used by 80+ funds managing $10B+ in AUM. 🔹 Screen, chart, and analyze 1300+ tokens 🔹 Summarize market-moving news instantly 🔹 Integrates data from CoinGecko, Kaito, Token Terminal, Tokenomist, The Tie Get started today: https://askfocal.com -- AO Mainnet is LIVE! Experience the future of decentralized computing: infinite parallel processing, secure TEE-powered computations, and LLMs in smart contracts. Built on Arweave, AO's modular design shatters scalability limits. 100% of tokens are distributed to Arweave holders and bridge depositors, with a fixed supply and halving. Explore AO today: https://ao.arweave.dev -- Timestamps: (00:00) Intro (01:50) What Went Wrong With Ethereum? (07:33) The Ethereum L2 Roadmap (10:35) Does Ethereum Have Product Market Fit? (13:46) Ethereum’s Big Pivot (18:11) Ads (ZKSync, Zenrock) (19:49) Should Blockspace Be Taxed? (22:15) Ethereum's Next Chapter (27:55) The Role Of Etherealize (30:18) Ads (ZKSync, Zenrock) (31:57) Does Scaling The L1 Benefit L2s? (42:38) How To Attract Builders To Ethereum (44:46) Ads (Falcon x,Arweave) (46:22) Should We Tariff The L2s? (51:35) How To Value L1s (56:50) The Bull Case For ETH (01:04:00) Should L2 Tokens Exist? (01:09:02) Final Thoughts — Disclaimer: Nothing said on Empire is a recommendation to buy or sell securities or tokens. This podcast is for informational purposes only, and any views expressed by anyone on the show are solely our opinions, not financial advice. Santiago, Jason, and our guests may hold positions in the companies, funds, or projects discussed.