M&A Science12 Jun 2025

M&A Lawyers vs. Bankers: What's Changed and What Still Matters with Rob Kindler

Rob Kindler, Partner at Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison LLP

In this episode of the M&A Science podcast, Kison Patel sits down with Rob Kindler, a uniquely positioned dealmaker whose career has spanned both sides of the M&A table—law and investment banking. Rob previously led global M&A at Morgan Stanley and is now a senior partner at Paul Weiss. With 44 years of experience, he's seen firsthand how the roles of lawyers and bankers have evolved, what makes a deal succeed or fail, and how today's regulatory, activist, and valuation pressures are reshaping M&A execution.

Things you will learn:

Why legal advisors are now the first call in M&A, not the last
How corporate development teams have replaced bankers in early-stage deal sourcing
Why regulatory strategy and shareholder approval planning can make or break a deal
How to negotiate effectively by predicting "the end of the movie"

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Episode Chapters

[00:01:00] Rob's career arc from lawyer to banker and back again

[00:04:30] Why Rob left law for investment banking in 2000

[00:06:00] How corporate dev teams changed the role of bankers

[00:11:30] Structuring deals to avoid shareholder approval pitfalls

[00:14:30] The rise of activism and merger arbitrage in public M&A

[00:16:00] How buyer-led M&A has transformed deal strategy

[00:22:30] Impact of regulatory regimes in U.S. vs. Europe

[00:27:00] Lessons in negotiation and predicting deal dynamics

[00:36:00] Why intrinsic value matters more than financial engineering

[00:48:30] What top CEOs understand about using M&A to drive strategy
[00:51:00] How to spot a bad deal—and the red flags bankers sometimes ignore

[00:53:00] Rob's funniest moment: 300 pounds of turnips on a conference table

Questions, comments, concerns?
Follow Kison Patel for behind-the-scenes insights on modern M&A.

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