Mark Leonard's World in 30 Minutes13 Jun 2025

Doves and Hawks: Foreign policy in the second Trump age

A humanitarian crisis in Gaza; question marks around Iran; unstable governments in eastern Europe; and the growth of China’s economic and military might. All are cause for concern—and all provide the backdrop to the Trump administration’s approach to foreign policy, which represents the biggest generational shift since the cold war.

This week Mark Leonard is joined by Dan Caldwell, former senior adviser at the Pentagon, and Curt Mills, executive editor of the American Conservative, to talk about what is influencing Donald Trump’s foreign policy. The president, and many key players in defence, agree that constant military build-up and the steady accruing of debt—which has characterised foreign policy since Reagan—has left America with little to show. The prevailing ideology of conservative anti-globalism is characterised by the US paring back military presence outside the Western hemisphere and a “realist” approach to trade.

But the administration has dissenting voices, in particular those advocating a more hawkish policy towards Iran. Mark, Dan and Curt take a deep dive into the sentiments and personalities influencing the second Trump era’s foreign policy, and consider what the world—and especially Europeans—can expect for the months ahead.

Bookshelf:

The Bin Ladens: An Arabian Family in the American Century by Steve Coll

The Achilles Trap: Saddam Hussein, the C.I.A., and the Origins of America's Invasion of Iraq by Steve Coll

Collapse: The Fall of the Soviet Union by Vladislav M. Zubok

The World of the Cold War 1945-1991 by Vladislav M. Zubok

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Episoder(652)

Maximum pressure on Iran, round two

This week, Mark Leonard is joined by Ellie Geranmayeh, deputy director of ECFR's Middle East and North Africa programme, to unpack a volatile new chapter in the confrontation between the United States...

4 Sep 32min

Can a Ceasefire Survive Israel’s Election?

This week, Mark Leonard is joined by Hugh Lovatt, senior policy fellow at ECFR, to unpack a turbulent summer in Israel and the Palestinian territories. While Palestinian factions in Gaza have agreed i...

28 Aug 28min

Germany’s second China shock

This week, Mark Leonard is joined by Janka Oertel, director of ECFR’s DARE* initiative, and Andrew Small, head of ECFR’s Asia programme, to examine the growing impact of the “China shock 2.0” on Germa...

21 Aug 35min

Political crisis in Germany

This week, Mark Leonard is joined by Jörg Lau, international correspondent at Die Zeit and Jana Puglierin, head of ECFR’s Berlin office, to explore the political turmoil in Germany ahead of an elector...

14 Aug 30min

Latin America’s new imaginaries

This week, Mark Leonard is joined by Adriana Abdenur, a Brazilian policy expert and co-president of the Global Fund for a New Economy, and Jorge Castañeda, former foreign minister of Mexico and profes...

7 Aug 34min

Defining Modernity in South-East Asia

This week, Mark Leonard is joined by LuHan Gabel, associate director of the Ideas Workshop at the Open Society Foundations; Ooi Kee Beng, political historian and executive director of the Penang Insti...

31 Jul 39min

The China-native generation

This week, Mark Leonard is joined by Loubna El Amine, lecturer in political theory at King’s College London and affiliate of the Lau China Institute, and Cobus van Staden, head of research at the Chin...

24 Jul 39min

European defence after the NATO summit

This week, Mark Leonard welcomes Camille Grand, secretary general of ASD Europe and special adviser to ECFR’s European Security programme, and Marta Prochwicz Jazowska, deputy head of ECFR’s Warsaw of...

17 Jul 37min