Intelligence Squared13 Jul 2025

What can Charlottesville teach us about America’s national story? With Deborah Baker

In August 2017, over a thousand neo-Nazis, fascists, Klan members, and neo-Confederates descended on a small southern city to protest the pending removal of a statue of Robert E. Lee. What happened in Charlottesville—and why did so few see it coming? What does it reveal about the myths we tell ourselves about America? In this episode, we speak with Deborah Baker, Pulitzer Prize finalist and author of Charlottesville, about the harrowing events of August 2017, when a violent far-right rally turned a quiet college town into a national flashpoint. But rather than focus solely on the extremists, Baker turns her lens on the city itself—its institutions, its history, and the people who tried to stop the violence before it began. From clergy and activists to officials who failed to act, Baker unpacks the deeper story behind the chaos. And in a startling historical parallel, she traces the echoes of a long-buried plot from decades earlier—one with chilling similarities to what unfolded in 2017. If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all our full conversations, plus all of our Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more. For £4.99 per month you'll also receive: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared episodes, wherever you get your podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series - 15% discount on livestreams and in-person tickets for all Intelligence Squared events ... Or Subscribe on Apple for £4.99: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series … Already a subscriber? Thank you for supporting our mission to foster honest debate and compelling conversations! Visit intelligencesquared.com to explore all your benefits including ad-free podcasts, exclusive bonus content and early access. … Subscribe to our newsletter here to hear about our latest events, discounts and much more. https://www.intelligencesquared.com/newsletter-signup/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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