Podcast Then & Now #31 - Teresa Cherfas in conversation with Marina Sapritsky-Nahum

Welcome to the 31st edition of our Russian-language podcast Then & Now. Our latest guest is Marina Sapritsky-Nahum, a social anthropologist and author of the book Jewish Odesa, published in 2024 by Indiana University Press. The book explores issues of identity and tradition in the Jewish community in modern Odesa. Marina is currently a visiting fellow in the Department of Anthropology at the LSE.

In a review of Jewish Odesa, Lucy Lopata-Varkas writes:

‘Marina Sapritsky-Nahum’s Jewish Odesa is a compelling exploration of Jewishness in Odesa against the backdrop of Soviet history, Ukrainian nation-making, and ongoing European Jewish revivals. Drawing on an abundance of materials from history, oral testimonies, anthropology, and Jewish studies, Sapritsky-Nahum depicts a vibrant community whose connection to the port city never falters, despite waves of emigration to countries like Israel or the US, the changing political status quo, and fluctuating levels of religious observance.’

This podcast was recorded on 15 May 2025

My questions:

• What led you to make a study of Jewish Odesa in the early years of the 21st century?
• Did your own background influence your choice? Tell us a little about your own roots.
• How does the approach of a social anthropologist differ from that of a historian in the study of a subject such as this?
• The book begins with the stories and memories of an older generation of Jewish Odesans, those who grew up in the Soviet era. What did you learn from them? What defines them as Jews in their own eyes? And in the eyes of others?
• Is oral history a useful tool in this kind of research? In the book, you write: ‘collecting the life stories of elderly Jewish Odesans is one of my most cherished memories’… What did you personally gain from talking to them?
• After the collapse of the Soviet Union, there was a widespread resurgence of interest in religion. How did this manifest itself in Odesa after Ukraine declared its own independence in 1991? Was it a genuine Jewish revival?
• Odesa occupies a special place in Jewish history and in the history of the Russian Empire and of the Soviet Union. How did this come about and what is the essence of Odesa’s identity as a Jewish city?
• In the book you talk about traditions. This makes me think of the song ‘Tradition’ from the musical ‘Fiddler on the Roof’ based on the stories of Sholem Aleichem, a native of Odesa. Sholem Aleichem, Isaac Babel, Leonid Utesov, Mikhail Zhvanetsky and many other Jewish Odesans gave the city its special character. How would you describe this special character?
• You write about the myth of Odesa – in what sense is it a myth? Can this myth survive the current war with Russia?
• You completed your research for the book before the full-scale Russian invasion of Ukraine in 2022. Are you still in touch with your interviewees? How has Russian aggression changed relations between different ethnic groups in Odesa? Is there a perceived threat to the Jews, since they were always associated with Russian culture and language?
• There is a lot of controversy and debate surrounding the issue of monuments in Odesa. After the collapse of the Soviet Union, monuments were erected to famous Jews from Odesa, including the mythical Sashka and Rabinovich of Soviet-era jokes. Are they still standing? What about monuments related to Russian culture, such as the one to Pushkin, or to Catherine the Great (the founder of Odesa) and others? What does it say about modern Odesa?
• In 2023, UNESCO designated Odesa a world heritage city. What do you think prompted this decision, and how will it benefit the city’s residents?
• What has been the impact on the sense of identity of Odesa’s Jews of post-Soviet research into the part played by some Ukrainians during World War II? I’m thinking of Ukrainian collaboration with the Nazis, involvement in the Holocaust and in particular in the atrocity of Babi Yar?
• Are you planning to write a sequel to Jewish Odesa? About the impact of the current war on Jewish life in Odesa? Do you have any thoughts on what your findings might reveal that you could share with us?