Call Me Back - with Dan Senor11 Aug 2025

Defining Victory - with Micah Goodman

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Today’s Episode:

Late last week, the Israeli security cabinet approved a proposal by Prime Minister Netanyahu to conquer Gaza City, where roughly half the Gazan population resides, and which has been largely untouched by the IDF thus far.

This decision has prompted widespread international backlash, which was already mounting from concerns over a possible food crisis in Gaza. It also comes as more countries move to recognize a Palestinian state, forcing us to grapple with the high price Israel is paying on the global stage for the ongoing Gaza war.

With this in mind, on today’s episode, Dan speaks with Dr. Micah Goodman about whether there’s a difference between winning the war in Gaza and winning the wider, regional war. Is it possible that Israel will need to modify its definition of victory in Gaza in order to emerge victorious in the larger re-shaping of the geopolitics of the Middle East?

Micah Goodman co-hosts, along with Efrat Shapira Rosenberg, the popular Israeli podcast Mifleget Hamachshavot produced by Beit Avi Chai.

00:00 Introduction

05:17 The outcome of war with Iran

08:46 Public opinion on Iran war

13:22 Saudi normalization will split the Israeli right

18:02 The price of normalization

23:10 Who can lead normalization?

24:50 The next Israeli elections

26:53 How does Israel end the war in Gaza?

30:20 Losing the battle to win the war

31:34 Returning the hostages

32:25 Victory in the future versus victory now

34:52 Hamas anticipating Israel’s strategy

CREDITS:

ILAN BENATAR - Producer & Editor

ADAAM JAMES LEVIN-AREDDY - Executive Producer

MARTIN HUERGO - Sound Editor

MARIANGELES BURGOS - Additional Editing

MAYA RACKOFF - Operations Director

GABE SILVERSTEIN - Research

YUVAL SEMO - Music Composer

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