When Grief Doesn't Move In Stages

When Grief Doesn't Move In Stages

Radiolab producer Rachael Cusick's mother died when Rachael was six years old. Her grandmother, Marilyn Ryland, stepped in as a parental figure for Rachael, and while they didn't talk directly about grief together, Marilyn says, "it was always in the room."  I talked with Rachael and Marilyn together, in this special collaboration with Radiolab. For the past year, Rachael has been reporting a piece for Radiolab about psychiatrist Elisabeth Kübler-Ross and her "five stages of grief"—a model of neat progression through loss that Rachael quickly grew frustrated with when she was younger. In "The Queen of Dying," Rachael's new Radiolab episode, we learn about how those stages actually came about, and about the woman who created them. As Rachael was working on that piece, she also learned that her grandmother, Marilyn, had been diagnosed with cancer. I talk to Rachael and Marilyn together about losing Rachael's mom, and about the stages of grief—and dying. Listen to Rachael's companion Radiolab episode about the story and legacy of Elisabeth Kübler-Ross here. And read a Modern Love essay that Rachael wrote for The New York Times about her relationship with her grandmother, and loss, here.

Episoder(150)

Hard: Little Pill, Big Pharma

Hard: Little Pill, Big Pharma

When Dr. Irwin Goldstein started his career in urology in the 1970s, he remembers asking his mentor—an early pioneer in penile implant surgeries—"How the hell does an erection occur in the first place...

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Hard: Erectile Disappointment

Hard: Erectile Disappointment

Bob first started experiencing erectile dysfunction in his 50s. "The erections wouldn't last," he told me, "and that became kind of a frustration." Bob and his wife, Joanne, tried asking their doctors...

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At the start of this year, two-time Pulitzer Prize winning playwright Lynn Nottage achieved a feat. Three of her works—Clyde's, the musical MJ, and an opera adaptation of her play Intimate Apparel—wer...

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Affairs, Throuples, and Big Monogamy: Your Relationship Questions Answered

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We recently asked you to tell us about the decisions weighing on you about your romantic lives. The strangeness of the past two years has impacted all of our relationships—in both negative and positiv...

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Inheriting Divorce

Inheriting Divorce

Many of the marriages in producer Ian Coss’ family have ended in divorce. His parents’ marriage, his grandparents’s marriage, as well as some of his aunts and uncles’ marriages. Ian is married, but he...

23 Feb 202231min

Where is Lisa Fischer's Backup?

Where is Lisa Fischer's Backup?

Lisa Fischer has sung backing vocals for Dolly Parton, Bobby McFerrin, Luther Vandross and Beyoncé. She's also toured with the Rolling Stones since 1989, going from one swanky hotel to another, "eatin...

16 Feb 202228min

This Elvis Impersonator Does It For Love… And Money

This Elvis Impersonator Does It For Love… And Money

Brendan Paul never meant to become an Elvis impersonator. He wanted to play in rock bands like Kiss and was an art major in college at UCLA. But one day in his early 20s, he got a haircut—one that lef...

9 Feb 202228min

André De Shields On Living With His Shadow

André De Shields On Living With His Shadow

Self-proclaimed “professional charmer” André De Shields has performed on stage for more than 50 years. Today, at 76 years old, he brings his Tony Award-winning portrayal of Hermes to the Broadway musi...

26 Jan 202235min

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