Where Will Humanity Move When the World Gets Too Hot? Mass Climate Migration & The Rise of Uninhabitable Regions with Sunil Amrith

Where Will Humanity Move When the World Gets Too Hot? Mass Climate Migration & The Rise of Uninhabitable Regions with Sunil Amrith

In the next 25 years, the International Organization for Migration estimates that one billion people will be displaced from their homes due to climate-related events. From island nations underwater to inland areas too hot and extreme to sustain life, the individuals and communities in these areas will need somewhere new to live. Where will these people go, and how will this mass migration add further pressure to the stability of nations and the world?

In this episode, Nate is joined by environmental and migration historian, Sunil Amrith, to explore the complex history of human movement – and what it reveals about the looming wave of climate-driven migration. Sunil explains how the historical record shows migration has always been a defining feature of human life, not an exception. Together, they examine projections for future migration trends and the urgent need for acceptance, planning, and infrastructure to support the integration of new communities.

What lessons can we draw from past environmental crises that forced people to move, and how do today's challenges overlap or differ? How have countries historically responded to large-scale migration, and what long-term impacts did those choices have on their stability and prosperity? Ultimately, how might a more open and welcoming mindset help us face the unprecedented migrations ahead, as well as transform them into opportunities for survival, resilience, and shared thriving?

(Conversation recorded on August 14th, 2025)

About Sunil Amrith:

Sunil Amrith is the Renu and Anand Dhawan Professor of History at Yale University, with a secondary appointment as Professor at the Yale School of the Environment. He is the current Henry R. Luce Director of the Whitney and Betty MacMillan Center for International and Area Studies at Yale. Sunil's research focuses on the movements of people and the ecological processes that have connected South and Southeast Asia, and has expanded to encompass global environmental history. He has published in the fields of environmental history, the history of migration, and the history of public health.

Sunil's most recent book The Burning Earth, an environmental history of the modern world that foregrounds the experiences of the Global South, was named a 2024 "essential read" by The New Yorker, and a "book we love" 2024 by NPR. Additionally, Sunil's four previous books include Unruly Waters and Crossing the Bay of Bengal: The Furies of Nature and the Fortunes of Migrants.

Show Notes and More

Watch this video episode on YouTube

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Episoder(347)

Alex Gladstein: "Debt Colonialism, The Petrodollar, and Bitcoin"

Alex Gladstein: "Debt Colonialism, The Petrodollar, and Bitcoin"

On this episode, Alex Gladstein of the Human Rights Foundation joins Nate to unpack how monetary policy and debt have increasingly extended the reach of colonial powers over recent decades and how bitcoin offers an alternative to the many people who are under this financial exclusion. How have the IMF and World Bank upheld the power of reserve currency countries in the Global North to exploit and extract resources and labor from the Global South under the guise of aid and development? What is the origin of the 'petrodollar' and how has it shaped geopolitical relationships since its creation? What exactly is Bitcoin and how does it provide economic and political freedom? Is Bitcoin compatible with a low energy future? About Alex Gladstein: Alex Gladstein is Chief Strategy Officer at the Human Rights Foundation. He has also served as Vice President of Strategy for the Oslo Freedom Forum since its inception in 2009. In his work, Alex has connected hundreds of dissidents and civil society groups with business leaders, technologists, journalists, philanthropists, policymakers, and artists to promote free and open societies. He serves as faculty at Singularity University and as an advisor to Blockchain Capital, a leading venture firm in the fintech industry. He frequently speaks and writes about why Bitcoin matters for freedom, and is the author of Check Your Financial Privilege. His new book, Hidden Repression: How the IMF and World Bank Market Exploitation as Development was just published in May 2023. For Show Notes and More visit: http://thegreatsimplification.com/episode/72-alex-gladstein To watch this video episode on Youtube → https://youtu.be/u84tyIokAY8

24 Mai 20232h 27min

Reflections on 'Beyond Growth' | Frankly #31

Reflections on 'Beyond Growth' | Frankly #31

On this Frankly, Nate reflects on the Beyond Growth Conference held at the European Parliament, including the stunning public acknowledgement by EU President that a growth model based on fossil fuels is now obsolete. In the context of this growing and relevant conversation, Nate unpacks what the degrowth movement is getting right, but also what is missing from the conversation. Is it possible to purposely navigate from our current system to one with lower energy and material wealth? How does a large and growing global debt overhang impact this possibility? Is a transfer of wealth between nations feasible or even desirable based on realistic outcomes? In any case, as to the inevitability of a post-growth world, the degrowth conversation needs to be expanded. It's the primary movement mapping out what a desirable destination might look like as we move through a Great Simplification. Watch on Youtube: https://youtu.be/JYbIsXoBg70 For Show Notes and More: https://www.thegreatsimplification.com/frankly-original/31-reflections-on-beyond-growth

19 Mai 202310min

Daniel Schmachtenberger: "Artificial Intelligence and The Superorganism"

Daniel Schmachtenberger: "Artificial Intelligence and The Superorganism"

On this episode, Daniel Schmachtenberger returns to discuss a surprisingly overlooked risk to our global systems and planetary stability: artificial intelligence. Through a systems perspective, Daniel and Nate piece together the biophysical history that has led humans to this point, heading towards (and beyond) numerous planetary boundaries and facing geopolitical risks all with existential consequences. How does artificial intelligence, not only add to these risks, but accelerate the entire dynamic of the metacrisis? What is the role of intelligence vs wisdom on our current global pathway, and can we change course? Does artificial intelligence have a role to play in creating a more stable system or will it be the tipping point that drives our current one out of control? About Daniel Schmachtenberger: Daniel Schmachtenberger is a founding member of The Consilience Project, aimed at improving public sensemaking and dialogue. The throughline of his interests has to do with ways of improving the health and development of individuals and society, with a virtuous relationship between the two as a goal. Towards these ends, he's had particular interest in the topics of catastrophic and existential risk, civilization and institutional decay and collapse as well as progress, collective action problems, social organization theories, and the relevant domains in philosophy and science. For Show Notes and More visit: https://www.thegreatsimplification.com/episode/71-daniel-schmachtenberger To watch this video episode on Youtube: https://youtu.be/_P8PLHvZygo

17 Mai 20233h 12min

Missing Words | Frankly #30

Missing Words | Frankly #30

Last Friday we released Nate's annual Earth Day presentation for 2023: a reflection on ~3 dozen common English words which are semantically disconnected from what they really mean - paired alongside more biophysically accurate terms. Building on that theme, this week's Frankly is a thought experiment of which ecological and systems concepts do not exist in the English language - but perhaps should. All of this is to say, the semantics and connotations of our language are extremely powerful and have direct impacts on the way we think and act. Could shaping our speech to be more accurate, empathetic, and comprehensive cause our aggregate actions to do the same? For Show notes and more: https://www.thegreatsimplification.com/frankly-original/30-missing-words To Watch on Youtube: https://youtu.be/wDLTkAad3rY

12 Mai 202314min

John Kitzhaber: "What Makes a Healthy Society?"

John Kitzhaber: "What Makes a Healthy Society?"

On this episode, former Governor of Oregon and ER Doctor John Kitzhaber joins Nate to discuss the shortcomings of the medical system in the United States. With health outcomes below average compared to other developed nations and healthcare spending at nearly 20% of GDP, creating medical systems that are less costly while also keeping people healthier is critical to the well-being of the country and its citizens. Dr. Kitzhaber's hands-on experience working in medicine and systemic perspective as a policymaker gives him a unique perspective on healthcare resource allocation, the effectiveness of medicine, and the real world effects of how we incentivize medical care. Can we extend our time horizons by making long-term investments in the most effective preventative care? How do we take care of more people with fewer resources available? Most of all, can we come together to think critically about how we can create a system that prioritizes holistic health, based in community and accessible to everyone? About John Kitzhaber John Kitzhaber has more than 40 years of experience in health care and health policy in both public and private sectors. He practiced as an emergency room physician for 15 years; served 14 years in the Oregon Legislature, and served three terms as Governor of the State of Oregon. Kitzhaber is the author of the groundbreaking Oregon Health Plan, through which hundreds of thousands of low- and moderate-income Oregon families gain access to health care. During his third term as Governor, Kitzhaber was the chief architect of Oregon's Coordinated Care Organizations, the first effort in the country created on a statewide basis to meet the Triple Aim—better health, better quality, lower cost—with a focus on community and population health. To watch this video episode on Youtube: https://youtu.be/Z4cjl77rj78 Show Notes & Links to Learn More: https://www.thegreatsimplification.com/episode/70-john-kitzhaber

10 Mai 202350min

The Words of Our Lives | Earth Day 2023

The Words of Our Lives | Earth Day 2023

For this year's Earth Day presentation, I highlight common terms in the English language - the meanings of which we've come to take for granted. These words semantically imbue our understanding, perspective, and even behavior but have become untethered from the systemic reality they attempt to describe. Words have power. What we call things and how we describe things matters. This presentation is recommended to be viewed on Youtube with the accompanying visuals, but can still be listened to and understood in audio-only form. Thanks to my team - Leslie Batt-Lutz, Lizzy Sirianni, Luke Robert Mason, and Jason Figueredo for putting this together. Also thanks (as always) to my friend DJ White for helpful input. Thanks to Joan Diamond, Kyle Saunders, Maia Nillson, Rex Weyler for helpful input.

8 Mai 202340min

Robert Lustig: "Processed Food, Metabolism, and The Ills of Society"

Robert Lustig: "Processed Food, Metabolism, and The Ills of Society"

In this episode, Dr. Robert Lustig joins Nate to dive into the metabolism of the micro level of human systems - the humans ourselves. Over the last century, accompanying the transformation of our energy systems, our food and consumption patterns have been massively transformed. One of the biggest areas of change is the dramatic increase in sugar consumption. But are our bodies adapted to eating such high sugar, processed foods? What are the health effects connected to this way of eating? And, writ large, how does our metabolic dysfunction as individuals contribute to the energy hungry global Superorganism? What are the systemic drivers that currently prevent a shift towards healthier food systems? Can changing how we eat make us healthier - and thus better equipped to face the complex challenges of the metacrisis? About Robert Lustig: Robert H. Lustig, M.D., M.S.L. is Emeritus Professor of Pediatrics in the Division of Endocrinology, and Member of the Institute for Health Policy Studies at UCSF. Dr. Lustig is a neuroendocrinologist, with expertise in metabolism, obesity, and nutrition. He is one of the leaders of the current "anti-sugar" movement that is changing the food industry. He has dedicated his retirement from clinical medicine to help to fix the food supply any way he can, to reduce human suffering and to salvage the environment. Dr. Lustig graduated from MIT in 1976, and received his M.D. from Cornell University Medical College in 1980. He also received his Masters of Studies in Law (MSL) degree at University of California, Hastings College of the Law in 2013. He is the author of the popular books Fat Chance (2012), The Hacking of the American Mind (2017), and Metabolical: The Lure and the Lies of Processed Food, Nutrition, and Modern Medicine (2021). For Show Notes and More visit: https://www.thegreatsimplification.com/episode/69-robert-lustig To watch this video episode on Youtube → https://youtu.be/onVqjZOYlQs

3 Mai 20231h 27min

Simon Michaux: "The Arcadian Blueprint"

Simon Michaux: "The Arcadian Blueprint"

In this episode, Simon Michaux returns to discuss his new paper "A Resource Balanced Economy", which outlines an alternative economic and social system. This conversation builds off of his two previous episodes on The Great Simplification, unpacking the ideas and tools that will be helpful in planning for an unknown future with more energy and material constraints. How can we be more intentional about the design of our technology to make products that are longer lasting and easier to reuse? How can we organize society to create resilient communities based around actual human needs, rather than endless efficiency geared towards growth? Can an 'Arcadian Blueprint' emerge, and at what scale, and by whom? About Simon Michaux: Dr. Simon Michaux is an Associate Professor of Geometallurgy at the Geological Survey of Finland. He has a PhD in mining engineering. Dr. Michaux's long-term work is on societal transformation toward a circular economy. For Show Notes and More visit: https://www.thegreatsimplification.com/episode/68-simon-michaux To watch this video episode on Youtube → https://youtu.be/bb801wdRULM

26 Apr 20231h 15min

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