Interview with Helen Lewis on culture wars and religion, that Jordan Peterson interview, and gurus generally

Interview with Helen Lewis on culture wars and religion, that Jordan Peterson interview, and gurus generally

Today Chris and Matt are visited by Helen Lewis, a journalist, editor, and writer with what could very fairly be described as a rather distinguished career in those fields.

Helen has previously worked at the New Statesman and is currently with The Atlantic. She has also served as a Women in the Humanities Honorary Writing Fellow at Oxford University and also on the steering committee for the Reuters Institute for Journalism at Oxford University. Her books include Difficult Women: A History of Feminism in 11 Fights. Helen's work covers a broad array of topics including politics, feminist issues, and contemporary/online culture. She is also known for a particular long-form interview which became a 'viral moment' when she sat down for a challenging discussion with one, Jordan B. Peterson.

Most recently Helen has produced "The Church of Social Justice" for BBC4, which asks whether political movements might be taking the place of traditional religions in Britain. A question which never generates any controversy whatsoever. She is also working on an upcoming project that looks at internet gurus and the ecosystems they spawn. So, we were glad to take the opportunity to catch up and talk about the intersections with our rather idiosyncratic collection of interests.

Join us as we try to decipher whether everything is a religion, if social justice requires a pope, and how exactly can we resolve ALL of those thorny culture war debates. We might not ultimately reach any satisfying answers but Helen does offer her one rule for life at the end of the interview!

Also featured on this episode: our most defensive response to a review to date, and a segment on the dangers of JAQing off!

Links


Episoder(209)

Supplementary Material 28: The Ultimate Geometric Unifying Cognitive-Theoretic Iceberg

Supplementary Material 28: The Ultimate Geometric Unifying Cognitive-Theoretic Iceberg

We exercise our ethnographic muscles as we revel in the esoteric dynamics of Australian Pool Culture, the mysteries of Eric Weinstein's theories as revealed by Curt Jaimungal, and the contradictions of MAGA cultists.Supplementary Material 2800:00 Matt's Ethnography of Australian Swimming Culture06:19 Pool Etiquette and Social Dynamics08:46 Mutual Humiliation and Blackmail08:51 Reciprocal Humiliation12:01 Patreon Question of the Week13:37 Curt Jaimungal explores Geometric Unity19:12 The Weinsteinian Iceberg26:38 Eric's Response to Curt28:40 A potential doomsday device?29:55 The wisdom of genuine seekers35:00 The Pseudo Profundity Mask38:19 Pandering to anti-'mainstream' science audiences40:37 Earnest Fans43:54 Passive consumption at YouTube University46:21 Independent Learning and  the Pitfalls of Self-Taught Knowledge49:53 The Illusion of Easy Learning56:00 Credentials vs. Actual Knowledge59:46 Media Criticism & the Fifth Column01:02:47 Priorities in the Media Business01:04:29 Why is strong criticism so taboo?01:08:25 Brand Building in the Alternative Media01:12:02 Batya joins the Fifth Column01:16:37 Debating Tariffs01:22:46 A rare instance of REAL disagreement in alternative media!01:25:58 Sensitive MAGA Cultist Sycophancy01:32:10 The Working Class don't want iPhones01:41:06 OutroThe full episode is available for Patreon subscribers (1hr 43 mins).Join us at: https://www.patreon.com/DecodingTheGurusSources- The Fifth Column #502 - The Second Battle of Batya (w/ Batya Ungar-Sargon)- The Fifth Column #503 - Mea Minima Culpa- The Fifth Column Members Only #258 - We Don't Talk About Fight Club (Mostly)- Curt Jaimungal - Eric Weinstein's Theory of Everything "Geometric Unity" Explained- Curt Jaimungal - Chris Langan: The Most In-Depth Interview with the World's Smartest Man- Eric's Twitter response to Curt- Josh Rogin's (mild) criticism of Bill Maher

16 Mai 37min

Gurometer: Gary Stevenson

Gurometer: Gary Stevenson

The podcast arrives at 'late stage' Gary discourse as Matt and Chris attempt to enter the man, the myth, and the legend, Gary Stevenson, into a reductive classification system (that once again includes no mention of inequality). The gurometer was not built to handle this level of elite education and trading acumen, and has often been dismissed by arrogant elites due to its scrappy nature and lack of fancy credentials... but it persists. Just remember, an attack on the Gurometer is ultimately an attack on you, your family, and all you hold dear.SourcesReddit thread asking us to do betterJacobin: Portrait of the Trader as a Young RebelRichard Murphy's analysis of Gary's EconomicsTax Policy Associates' analysis of some tax reform proposalsGary on Twitter explaining that traders understand the economy a lot better than economists like Piketty and StiglitzThe full episode is available for Patreon subscribers (47 mins).Join us at: https://www.patreon.com/DecodingTheGurusGurometer of Gary01:02 Gary Stevenson: Other Opinions07:31 Gary's Wealth Tax Proposal12:21 Guru Features and Scoring13:11 Galaxy Brainness15:34 Cultishness18:04 Anti-Establishmentarianism20:04 Grievance Mongering23:15 Self Aggrandisement and Narcissism24:25 Cassandra Complex25:40 Revolutionary Theories28:12 Pseudo Profound Bullshit30:07 Conspiracy Mongering32:21 Excessive Profiteering34:24 Moral Grandstanding36:14 Guru Scoring and Analysis37:34 Quick Fire Guru Bonus Points40:37 Matt's confusing Binary Measure

10 Mai 23min

Gary Stevenson: The People's Economist

Gary Stevenson: The People's Economist

In this episode, Matt and Chris take a look at one of the UK’s most compelling economic crusaders: Gary Stevenson, aka Gary’s Economics. A millionaire trader turned YouTube firebrand, Gary’s message is simple and potent: wealth inequality is spiralling, the ultra-rich are hoarding everything, and economists and politicians are either complicit or clueless.Gary’s story has all the trappings of a mythic arc: from humble East London roots to Citibank’s trading floor, where he made millions betting against the poor during the financial crisis. Now he claims the system is so broken that only someone like him, working class and mathematically gifted, someone who entered the high-power world of financial trading and took on the system, could see it. As Gary puts it, a sort of economic Copernicus, who brought a revolutionary message that was dismissed by a stultifying orthodoxy.With his righteous critique comes a hefty dose of swagger, whether it is in considering himself like a Usain Bolt of trading or in the frequent laments about how exhausting it is to be a lone voice of truth facing bad-faith hit pieces. Gary straddles an odd tension: self-effacing underdog one moment, saviour-on-a-soapbox the next. He rails against academia, dismisses journalists as clickbait merchants, and urges people not to heed critics, due to their ulterior motives.Our hosts explore the contradictions of a millionaire revolutionary who's not even bothered but also a bit miffed the phone isn’t ringing; a tireless advocate for the poor but also someone who seems to frequently drop in his elite credentials and just how rich he is.So strap in for a deep dive into charisma, critique, and class warfare economics. Is Gary the economic truth-teller we need, or a populist guru-in-the-making with revolutionary zeal and a finely tuned YouTube brand?SourcesGary's Economics- Understand the Economy Part 3: Why is Inequality Ignored?Gary's Economics- Signing off: How close are we to winning higher taxes on the rich?Novara Media- Everything They Tell You About the Economy is WRONG | Aaron Meets Gary StevensonGary Stevenson (2024). The Trading Game: A ConfessionFinancial Times: Gary Stevenson claims to have been the best trader in the world. His old colleagues disagreeFinancial Times: He made millions betting against economic recovery. Now he wants to fix thingsThe Daily Mail's hit piece on GaryReddit thread discussing Gary's ThesisPlain Bagel - The Canadian Housing Crisis ExplainedPatrick Boyle on the Pandemic Real Estate BubbleAsianometry on an...

4 Mai 3h 52min

Supplementary Material 27: Joe Rogan vs. Douglas Murray vs. Sam Harris vs. DTG

Supplementary Material 27: Joe Rogan vs. Douglas Murray vs. Sam Harris vs. DTG

We immerse ourselves in the dark waves of the discourse to bring you treasures beyond mere mortal ken. Supplementary Material 2700:00 Introduction & Australian Holidays03:53 James Lindsay's New Revelations07:20 Michael O'Fallon's Conspiracy Hipsterism09:41 Trump, Bukele, and Transparent Conspiracies11:53 The Whitehouse declares the Lab Leak is a FACT14:42 The conspiracy leak treadmill: UFOs, RFK assassination, and lableak21:26 The Rise of the Idiots: Grimes on Transformers Cinematography29:17 Lex vs. Flint: The mask slips33:21 The Iron Curtain falls on Lex's Subreddit35:18 Subreddit Moderation Choices41:46 Douglas Murray on Joe Rogan46:36 Darryl Cooper's Nazi Apologetics, the Role of Experts and JAQs57:25 Strategic Disclaimers & Convincing Apologetics01:03:28 The Rogansphere and Media Power01:07:30 Murray on the Lab Leak01:12:19 Murray's Anti-Establishment Hypocrisy01:19:10 Standards in Journalism01:22:42 Alternative Media's Double Standards01:28:33 Douglas Murray joins Sam Harris01:29:26 The Psychology of Religious Extremism01:36:04 Radicalisation and Extremism01:41:24 Murray's 'Criticism' of MAGA01:44:32 What is even the Right Wing?01:55:11 What about Elon Musk?02:05:40 AfD isn't that bad, and Elon has promoted Douglas too!02:16:10 Rogan and the Moon Landing02:17:16 Sam is still a bad judge of character02:19:29 Isn't everyone a hypocrite?02:23:16 Free Speech Debates02:26:58 The role of Moderation02:31:37 OutroThe full episode is available for Patreon subscribers (2hr 32 mins).Join us at: https://www.patreon.com/DecodingTheGurusSourcesSam Harris Episode 410 Douglas Murray: The Whole CatastropheJoe Rogan Experience #2303 - Dave Smith & Douglas MurrayFlint's post about Lex FridmanGrimes on Transformers' cinematographyJames Lindsay on being used by NazisNathan Barley on YouTubeWhitehouse website on the Lab LeakJoe Rogan Experience #2307 - Tim Dillon

25 Apr 46min

Michael Shellenberger: Conspiratorial Propaganda

Michael Shellenberger: Conspiratorial Propaganda

In this episode, Matt and Chris pour themselves a stiff drink and slip into the fever‑dream crossover of Jordan Peterson and Michael Shellenberger, a conversation that opens with the claim that Western Europe is now the single greatest threat to free speech; yes, croissants and GDPR apparently out‑authoritarian China and Russia. According to Shellenberger, we can now rest safe as free speech has been restored and “America Is Back!” thanks to God-Emperor Trump and the living avatar of honest utterance, Elon 'Horus' Musk.Our hosts marvel as Shellenberger insists USAID is a rogue soft‑power leviathan that somehow staged January 6th, sabotaged the 2020 election, and deserves to be nuked from orbit... although he can’t quite prove any of that YET​. Alongside the conspiratorial drivel there is also a heavy serving of Peterson's obscurantist mythicism and dinner‑party anthropology as he explains how Hungary is a model democracy, the US nation beset by parasites, and that this is all inevitably connected to how people are not paying enough attention to Jesus​.But that is not all! You will also learn about Manly Men vs. Gentlemen, Musk’s “move fast and break government” ethos, and the revelation that free speech is not a nice‑to‑have but a must‑have—unless you are a lawyer, journalist, or student on the wrong side of the Trump administration. So buckle up for an hour of dystopian déjà vu, as two self‑styled rebel intellectuals morph into state propagandists, cheerleading every single action of Trump and Musk while lecturing the rest of us on free thought.Sources“Trump, Musk, Kennedy: The Dawn of Transparency,” The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast, Ep. 526.Shellenberger's Substack, including gems like "Why Trump’s Victory Is, For Millions Of Us, Cathartic" and "Both USAID And The CIA Were Behind The Impeachment Of Trump in 2019"Taibbi & Shellenberger testify to the House Judiciary Committee to help uncover "the Biden-Harris Administration's unconstitutional censorship campaign"Singal-Minded articles detailing Shellenberger's sloppy journalism and conspiracy theories

18 Apr 2h 7min

Decoding the Uncomfortable Conversations with Josh Szeps

Decoding the Uncomfortable Conversations with Josh Szeps

In this stunning crossover episode, Matt and Chris are joined by Australian 'media personality' and podcast host Josh Szeps for a joyful discussion of podcasts, gurusphere, and general media dynamics. As you might imagine, we discuss issues around the heterodox sphere, cultures of criticism, and the issues involved with 'platforming' controversial figures. We discuss the constantly surprising popularity of Lex Fridman and his unique interview style, how the heterodox respond to criticism, and rampant hypocrisy. Also, Matt is finally held to account for his food takes, and we find out the real story behind the Olympic mascot, Olly the Kookaburra.SourcesJosh's Substackistan podcast

16 Apr 1h 17min

Supplementary Material 26: Flint Dibble Interview, Bonding over Outgroup Hate, and Manly Sycophancy

Supplementary Material 26: Flint Dibble Interview, Bonding over Outgroup Hate, and Manly Sycophancy

We project our insecurities onto the gurusphere, wallowing in our inadequacy to bond over shared hatred of outgroups, and interview Flint Dibble along the way.Supplementary Material 2600:00 Introduction and Greetings01:53 Ol' Squeaky and Lex's horny poems05:11 Eric Weinstein is still waiting for the call09:26 Interview with Flint Dibble11:05 Introduction and Catching Up12:19 Joe Rogan and Public Perception14:57 Hypocrisy and Slander16:05 Graham Hancock and Neo-Nazi Connections22:08 Upcoming Exposé on Joe Rogan23:03 Pyramids of Giza: New Claims24:45 Debunking the Mega Structures Theory25:20 The Researchers Behind the Claims28:21 Scientific Methods and Evidence31:58 Conclusion on Pyramids and Science35:13 Gurusphere Dynamics37:47 Pseudo-Archaeology and Public Perception46:11 Mr. Beast's Egypt Adventure50:36 The Role of Pseudo-Archaeology in Conspiracy Theories58:50 Post-Interview Discussion59:53 Trump's Tariffs and Economic Impact01:04:30 The Amazing Tariff Formula01:09:45 Geoffrey Miller's 9D Chess Theory of the Tariffs01:13:30 Contrapoints Conspiracy Video01:14:55 Some things Matt will not mention on Tariffs01:17:35 QAnon Anonymous on Graham Hancock01:22:33 Some Other News covers Joe Rogan01:30:13 Ryan Beard's Destiny Content Nuke01:32:33 The Studies Show covers Conspiracies01:33:53 Hasan argues for tariffs01:37:40 Back to Rogan and Chris Williamson01:39:21 Critically Reviewing Cory Clark's Study01:47:58 Incestuous Bro Podcasts and Legacy Media Struggles01:53:00 Bonding over outgroup hatred and Criticism Capture02:02:04 USAid is funding the attacks on Tesla!02:07:56 Trump's Badass Son humilates Biden02:10:28 Tribal Hypocrisy02:11:52 Joe Smashes All Your Paradigms!02:14:59 The villain, Sam Harris criticizes the hero, Lex Fridman02:20:18 Does Lex speak to EVERYONE?02:23:44 Concluding Thoughts from Maladjusted HatersThe full episode is available for Patreon subscribers (2hr 25 mins).Join us at: https://www.patreon.com/DecodingTheGurusSourcesArchaeology with Flint Dibble- Megastructures under Giza Pyramids⁉️ ARCHAEOLOGY REWRITTEN or viral 💩?Piers Morgan episode with Flint and Milo RossiJoe Rogan Experience #2293 - Chris WilliamsonQAnon Anonymous: Graham Hancock’s Ancient Apocalypse (E318)Contrapoints: ConspiracyThe Studies Show: Conspiracy TheoriesWhat "Happened" To Joe Rogan? - SOME MORE NEWSMen's Health: Joe Rogan Responds to the Controversy Surrounding His 'Endorsement' of Bernie SandersRyan Beard: Content Nuke Destiny<a...

12 Apr 1h 14min

Lex Fridman & Douglas Murray: The Wise Man from the Land of Peace

Lex Fridman & Douglas Murray: The Wise Man from the Land of Peace

In this very special decoding, Matt and Chris revisit the wisdom of the internet’s favourite philosopher-warrior/political theorist, Lex Fridman, as he dives once again into the complex realities of the Ukraine war. Joining Lex is IDW hero and conservative commentator Douglas Murray, who actually offers some sensible insights on the specific topic of Ukraine. Fear not, though, Lex ensures his signature 'non-partisan' approach remains intact, framing Zelensky as a potentially corrupt leader who is emotionally driven, and responsible for prolonging the conflict to evade the inevitable investigations. Meanwhile, Putin remains a tragically misunderstood patriot whose greatest crime is that he loves his country a little too much.Lex is in rare form, reaching new heights of weaponised naiveté, and bravely defending himself against the legions of online "grifters, drama-farmers, liars, bots, sycophants, and sociopaths." Expect generous servings of geopolitical delusions, questionable polemics, and heartfelt serenades to Joe Rogan—all delivered with Lex’s characteristic humility and wisdom as a love-filled Man of Peace. We are genuinely sorry to drag you back into Lex's world, but someone has to keep an eye on his Ukraine takes.Sources Lex Fridman- Douglas Murray: Putin, Zelenskyy, Trump, Israel, Netanyahu, Hamas & Gaza | Lex Fridman Podcast #463DTG: Lex Fridman's Take on the Zelensky Interview: The Wounded Bird and Ukrainian Bot FarmsDTG: Douglas Murray: Can indulgent dinner conversation save OUR civilisation?

6 Apr 1h 22min

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