Hybrid Pricing and Pricing with AI with Steven Forth
Impact Pricing17 Apr 2023

Hybrid Pricing and Pricing with AI with Steven Forth

Steven Forth is Ibbaka's Co-Founder, CEO, and Partner. Ibbaka is a strategic pricing advisory firm. He was CEO of LeveragePoint Innovations Inc., a SaaS business designed to help companies create and capture value. Steven is what I consider one of the great pricing thinkers in our industry.

In this episode, Steven enlightens us about hybrid pricing models and explains why we should adopt it. He also shares why pricing people need to change the way they see AI along with the work they do in pricing.

Why you have to check out today's podcast:

  • Understand one of the unstated rules of pricing that talks about pricing power along with insights into future risk
  • Find out how artificial intelligence (AI) can help address concerns regarding the connection between pricing and predictability, and why pricing people should change how they see AI in line with pricing
  • Discover the reason on why most of us need to adopt hybrid pricing models and why the two pricing metrics in that should be independent of each other

"Most of us need to adopt hybrid pricing models, and the two pricing metrics should be independent of each other. If the two pricing metrics track each other closely, why bother having a hybrid pricing model? You need two metrics that are relatively independent of each other, and that will give you the flexibility you need to respond in a difficult economic environment."

– Steven Forth

Topics Covered:

00:42 – Steven's insights on what a hybrid pricing model looks like

02:30 – Issues on pricing model that applies credits/tokens to usage

04:44 – Predictability; whoever has the best insight into future risk has the greatest pricing power

09:37 – Pricing people vs. the recent trend: AI and how it sets prices

12:02 – The Achilles heel of value-based pricing, and the hybrid pricing practice in companies

18:09 – What real value-based pricing is about

20:52 – An optimal pricing model if you want to combine two metrics

24:31 – Confused buyers don't buy and renew

27:18 – Three reasons why calculators don't expose their logic

28:42 – Steven's pricing advice

29:42 – Connect with Steven

Key Takeaways:

"If you have enough data, you can actually get pretty good at predicting future usage." – Steven Forth

"One of the unstated rules of pricing is that whoever has the best insight into future risk has the greatest pricing power. The better we get at prediction, the more accurate we can get at pricing, and the question then becomes, who has the data to make those predictions? And I think in many cases, it's actually the vendor who has better access to data." – Steven Forth

"This whole question of predictability and pricing is going to be a key question for pricing over the next three to five years, and the artificial intelligences are going to help us to answer that question much better than we've ever been able to answer it before." – Steven Forth

"If you're optimizing value for the customer, you're optimizing the amount that they're willing to pay you, so if you just do it to optimize revenue, you'll end up shooting yourself in the foot because you'll trigger that negative feedback loop." – Steven Forth

Connect with Steven Forth:

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Pricing as Language: How It Influences Valuation and Market Perception with Mike Blake

Pricing as Language: How It Influences Valuation and Market Perception with Mike Blake

Mike Blake is the founder of High Score Strategies, with over 26 years of experience in business valuation and M&A markets. He specializes in advising small to medium-sized businesses (SMBs) on increasing their valuations. Mike is passionate about the relationship between pricing and value, and how effective pricing strategies can significantly impact a company's worth. In this episode, Mike shares his insights on how pricing affects valuation, the importance of differentiation in a competitive market, and the shift from growth to profitability in business models. Together, they explore the concept of context-driven pricing, the significance of signaling in pricing strategies, and how companies can leverage their unique data to enhance their market position. Why you have to check out today's podcast: Discover how pricing communicates a company's brand and market position. Explore the relationship between pricing, profitability, and business valuation. Learn about the importance of differentiation and how to create a competitive moat. "Pricing is language. It communicates to the market what kind of brand you are." – Mike Blake Topics Covered: 01:37 – The relationship between pricing and valuation. 02:30 – The importance of pricing in determining profitability and cash flow. 03:39 – Differentiation and competitive moats in pricing strategies. 04:53 – The shift from growth to profitability in business models. 08:36 – Signaling in pricing and its impact on investor perception. 11:17 – How to differentiate in a market dominated by larger players. 13:23 – The relevance of pricing strategies for SMBs, and how service-based companies offer consulting as value-ad. 17:04 – What Mike does. 19:36 – Why businesses that don't know their business model. 20:53 – Why value-based pricing is excruciatingly difficult. 25:53 – Mike's advice on pricing and negotiation. Key Takeaways: "Pricing is the stem cell for all of that. [Cash flow, revenue, and profitability]" – Mike Blake "Companies that get pricing right are the most valuable." – Mike Blake "If you're selling 100% of your deals you're probably not optimizing your revenue because you're selling too cheaply." – Mike Blake "Understanding your unique data can create alternative revenue streams." – Mike Blake Connect with Mike Blake: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/unblakeable/ Email: mblake@highscoresstrategies.com Connect with Mark Stiving: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/ Email: mark@impactpricing.com

12 Mai 27min

Blogcast: Pricing AI: The Rules Haven't Changed, But Your Strategy Should

Blogcast: Pricing AI: The Rules Haven't Changed, But Your Strategy Should

This is an Impact Pricing Blog published on March 3, 2025, turned into an audio podcast so you can listen on the go. Read Full Article Here: https://impactpricing.com/blog/pricing-ai-the-rules-havent-changed-but-your-strategy-should/ If you have any feedback, definitely send it. You can reach us at mark@impactpricing.com. Now, go make an impact. Connect with Mark Stiving: Email: mark@impactpricing.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/

9 Mai 5min

Understanding Value from the Customer's Perspective with Deepak Bhootra

Understanding Value from the Customer's Perspective with Deepak Bhootra

Deepak Bhootra is the CEO of Jabulani Consulting, with over 19 years of experience in the tech industry, including significant roles at Hewlett Packard and Sun Microsystems. Deepak has a deep understanding of pricing strategies and their impact on sales performance. He is passionate about helping organizations navigate the complexities of pricing and sales operations. In this episode, Deepak shares his journey into pricing and sales, discussing the cultural nuances of negotiation in India and how they influence pricing strategies. Together, they explore the challenges salespeople face with pricing, the importance of understanding value from the customer's perspective, and how AI can play a role in pricing strategies. Why you have to check out today's podcast: Discover the common pitfalls salespeople face when discussing pricing. Explore the importance of aligning pricing with customer value and the psychological aspects of pricing. Learn how AI can enhance pricing strategies and sales effectiveness. "Pricing is something that companies use to control sales behavior. Salespeople don't like to be controlled." – Deepak Bhootra Topics Covered: 01:46 – Deepak introduces himself and shares his background in pricing. 03:10 – The cultural significance of negotiation in India and its impact on pricing. 07:44 – The relationship between sales and pricing and the challenges salespeople face. 14:21 – Discussion on the emotional aspects of pricing and how they affect sales decisions. 17:12 – Insights into the importance of understanding value from the customer's perspective. 23:09 – The role of AI in enhancing pricing strategies and sales effectiveness. 30:35 – Deepak's pricing advice. 33:18 – Connect with Deepak. Key Takeaways: "Salespeople need to understand the value of pricing and how it relates to customer perception." – Deepak Bhootra "Value is in the eye of the beholder. Understand what the customer values before discussing pricing." – Deepak Bhootra "When you ask a budget question right up front, you're actually setting yourself up for a pricing discussion." – Deepak Bhootra "Pricing is one of those conversations where you have complete control of your CRM updates, you have complete control over your forecast, your relationship, but you do not have control over the price because someone else dictates the price." – Deepak Bhootra "When you are looking at price, giving a discount is the easiest lever to pull right up front. And typically (salespeople) they do it because they can also bamboozle you with a lot of stuff." – Deepak Bhootra People/Resources Mentioned: Jabulani Consulting: https://jabulaniconsulting.com Amartya Sen: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amartya_Sen Connect with Deepak Bhootra: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/deepakbhootra/ Email: deepak@jabulaniconsulting.com Connect with Mark Stiving: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/ Email: mark@impactpricing.com

5 Mai 35min

Blogcast: The Single Perfect Price

Blogcast: The Single Perfect Price

This is an Impact Pricing Blog published on February 24, 2025, turned into an audio podcast so you can listen on the go. Read Full Article Here: https://impactpricing.com/blog/the-single-perfect-price/ If you have any feedback, definitely send it. You can reach us at mark@impactpricing.com. Now, go make an impact. Connect with Mark Stiving: Email: mark@impactpricing.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/

2 Mai 2min

From Startups to Scale: The Importance of Pricing in Business Growth with Vladyslav Podoliako

From Startups to Scale: The Importance of Pricing in Business Growth with Vladyslav Podoliako

Vladyslav Podoliako is the founder and CEO of Belkins.io, a leading B2B appointment setting agency, and Folderly, an email deliverability system. With a strong entrepreneurial spirit and a focus on performance-based results, Vlad has successfully navigated the complexities of pricing in the B2B space. He is passionate about helping companies scale their businesses through effective client acquisition strategies. In this episode, Vlad shares his journey from launching Belkins to evolving his pricing strategies as the company grew. Together, they explore the critical role of pricing in business growth, the importance of aligning pricing with customer value, and the unique challenges of pricing in the B2B landscape. Why you have to check out today's podcast: Understand the significance of aligning pricing with customer value and performance. Discover the importance of testing pricing strategies and gathering client feedback. Explore the psychological aspects of pricing and how they influence customer decisions. "Pricing is like blood in the veins for a growing company. You should have a great pricing model that is scalable and profitable." – Vlad Podoliako Topics Covered: 01:10 – Vlad introduces himself and discusses the common misinterpretation of his company names. 02:15 – The importance of pricing in Vlad's entrepreneurial journey and how it evolved over time. 04:36 – Overview of Belkins and its approach to client acquisition. 06:51 – Discussion on the pricing model based on sales qualified leads (SQLs) and its correlation with client ROI. 09:32 – Insights into product packaging and the pricing strategy for Folderly. 13:15 – The impact of high pricing on customer expectations and delivery pressure. 15:42 – The psychological aspects of pricing and how they relate to perceived value. 19:41 – Discussion on the entrepreneurial spirit in Ukraine and its impact on business success. 24:21 – In scaling your company, how often should you revisit your pricing? 26:50 – Vlad's advice on being courageous with pricing and testing strategies. 28:01 – Thoughts on ChatGPT pricing for pro. 30:01 – Connect with Vlad. Key Takeaways: "Be courageous about your pricing. Test it out more than you strategize theoretically." – Vlad Podoliako "(on pricing) It's about how much tries you do before you succeed and how resilient you do that. All of these events, historically, we kind of have this in our blood, adaptability, resilience, and hard work." – Vlad Podoliako People/Resources Mentioned: Belkins: https://belkins.io/ Folderly: https://folderly.com/ OpenAI: https://openai.com/ Sam Altman: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Altman NVIDIA: https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/ Google: https://www.google.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/ Connect with Vlad Podoliako: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vladPodoliako/ Email: vlad@belkins.io Connect with Mark Stiving: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/ Email: mark@impactpricing.com

28 Apr 30min

Blogcast: Creating Pricing Power That Lasts: A Guide for Long-Term Holdings

Blogcast: Creating Pricing Power That Lasts: A Guide for Long-Term Holdings

This is an Impact Pricing Blog published on March 10, 2025, turned into an audio podcast so you can listen on the go. Read Full Article Here: https://impactpricing.com/blog/creating-pricing-power-that-lasts-a-guide-for-long-term-holdings/ If you have any feedback, definitely send it. You can reach us at mark@impactpricing.com. Now, go make an impact. Connect with Mark Stiving: Email: mark@impactpricing.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/

25 Apr 7min

Unlocking Value in Distribution: Effective Pricing Systems Explained with Jared Smith

Unlocking Value in Distribution: Effective Pricing Systems Explained with Jared Smith

Jared Smith is the CEO of PriceSmith, a consulting firm specializing in pricing strategies for distributors and light manufacturers. With a background in pricing systems from Vendavo and experience as an adjunct professor at Oklahoma State, Jared brings a wealth of knowledge to the table. He is passionate about helping companies optimize their pricing strategies to capture more value. In this episode, Jared shares his journey from Frito-Lay to leading pricing innovation in the B2B distribution space. Together, they explore the key distinctions between B2B and B2C pricing models, especially the negotiation-heavy and data-rich nature of distribution. Why you have to check out today's podcast: Learn about the differences between B2B and B2C pricing strategies. Understand the role of pricing systems in managing large SKU portfolios in distributorship. Discover how to effectively segment customers for better pricing strategies. "Invest in your master data and keep chipping away at it. Start with 80/20 of your products and get that right." – Jared Smith Topics Covered: 01:42 - Jared shares how he got into pricing after his MBA and experiences at Frito-Lay and in B2B distribution. 02:57 - Discussion on the differences between B2C and B2B pricing, including transparency and data access. 06:06 - Challenges in understanding why customers buy and the limitations of data analytics. 12:55 - Jared explains his focus on distribution and the unique challenges it presents. 14:40 - Discussion on the relevance and limitations of cost-plus pricing in distribution. 19:17 - Exploration of how to implement good, better, best pricing in distribution. 25:28 - Discussion on whether distributors publish prices or rely on quotes for transactions. 26:33 - Jared shares insights from Uber experiences and how they relate to distribution pricing. 31:27 - The impact of customer loyalty on pricing strategies and potential risks. 32:55 - Jared's key piece of advice on investing in master data for better pricing strategies. 33:58 - Connect with Jared. Key Takeaways: "Distribution is an amazing thing. Obviously, it's worldwide. And the simple fact of it, it has two very unique aspects. The first one, a lot of SKUs. And then, the second one is that you have a lot of customers." – Jared Smith People/Resources Mentioned: PriceSmith: https://www.pricesmith.com/ Vendavo: https://www.vendavo.com/ Oklahoma State University: https://www.okstate.edu/ Pepsi: https://www.pepsi.com/ Frito-Lay: https://www.fritolay.com/ Coca-Cola: https://www.coca-cola.com/ Apple: https://www.apple.com/ LG: https://www.lg.com/ Uber: https://www.uber.com/ Lyft: https://www.lyft.com/ Connect with Jared Smith: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jaredpaulsmith/ Email: jared@pricesmith.com Connect with Mark Stiving: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/ Email: mark@impactpricing.com

21 Apr 35min

Blogcast: The Secret to Using AI in Pricing: Ask Expert Questions

Blogcast: The Secret to Using AI in Pricing: Ask Expert Questions

This is an Impact Pricing Blog published on February 17, 2025, turned into an audio podcast so you can listen on the go. Read Full Article Here: https://impactpricing.com/blog/the-secret-to-using-ai-in-pricing-ask-expert-questions/ If you have any feedback, definitely send it. You can reach us at mark@impactpricing.com. Now, go make an impact. Connect with Mark Stiving: Email: mark@impactpricing.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/

18 Apr 2min

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