Obsession, Secrets, and Sleight of Hand: Inside the Hidden World of Modern Magicians with Ian Frisch

Obsession, Secrets, and Sleight of Hand: Inside the Hidden World of Modern Magicians with Ian Frisch

A Note from James

I’ve always loved books where a journalist gets so deep into a subculture that they become part of it. Magic Is Dead by Ian Frisch is one of those. He starts out covering a secret society of magicians—“The 52,” named for the cards in a deck—and ends up becoming one of them.

It reminded me of other favorites like Word Freak (Scrabble), The Game (pickup artists), and Moonwalking with Einstein (memory champions). I love that genre of participation—when curiosity turns into obsession and then into mastery.

Ian’s journey pulled me right in. He didn’t just report on the world of magicians; he lived in it, practiced card tricks until his hands hurt, and learned how obsession, storytelling, and performance shape every great craft. Talking to him made me think about how every one of us could benefit from being part of more than one “world”—to have different lives, different subcultures where we’re known and respected for something unique. That’s real diversification. Not just financial, but personal.


Episode Description

In this episode, James talks with journalist and author Ian Frisch about his book Magic Is Dead: My Journey into the World’s Most Secretive Society of Magicians and what it means to go all-in on obsession.

They explore the underground network of modern magicians reinventing the art for the social-media age—tattoos, streetwear, viral videos, and all—and what these creative subcultures can teach the rest of us about mastery, storytelling, and risk.

It’s a conversation about transformation: how curiosity becomes discipline, and how the principles behind sleight of hand apply to persuasion, business, and everyday life.


What You’ll Learn

  • Why obsession—not balance—is often the key to getting great at something
  • How social media reshaped the art and culture of modern magic
  • The real psychology behind deception, storytelling, and human connection
  • How magicians build trust with skeptical audiences (and what leaders can learn from it)
  • Why belonging to multiple “worlds” or subcultures creates resilience and happiness


Timestamped Chapters

  • [00:00] Introduction — Obsession as a superpower
  • [03:00] A Note from James — The journalist who became a magician
  • [06:00] Participatory journalism and the power of total immersion
  • [10:00] What makes this genre work: transformation and obsession
  • [11:30] Discovering the new generation of social-media magicians
  • [14:00] From top hats to tattoos: how magic reinvented itself online
  • [18:30] The challenge of trust when magic meets video editing
  • [20:30] The return of live magic and the human reaction
  • [23:30] Subcultures, hierarchies, and belonging
  • [26:00] Magic as a social tool for outsiders
  • [29:00] How magicians train for a decade to master their craft
  • [37:00] Ian’s own training: learning sleight of hand as an adult
  • [40:00] The poker connection and card control secrets
  • [44:00] Why mystery matters more than the trick itself
  • [47:00] Storytelling, psychology, and reading people
  • [52:00] Applying magician skills to real-world persuasion
  • [54:00] Comedy, showmanship, and performance overlap
  • [55:30] The secret societies of magic and “The 52”
  • [58:30] Competition, creativity, and the economics of exclusivity
  • [01:00:40] How Ian earned his place as the “Two of Clubs”
  • [01:03:00] Inventing a new trick and becoming part of the story


Additional Resources


Related titles discussed:


Mentioned magicians:


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Episoder(1374)

Ep. 70 - Dave Berg: Behind the Curtain – An Insider's View to Jay Leno

Ep. 70 - Dave Berg: Behind the Curtain – An Insider's View to Jay Leno

Dave Berg spent 18 years as Jay Leno's co-producer of The Tonight Show.    Everyone knows The Tonight Show; say the name and you immediately get an image to pop into your mind. But what was really going on behind the scenes?   Today, Dave gives us all some great insight...    You'll hear in his voice how much love and respect he has for Jay, who he called the hardest-working man in all of show business. The inside stories are fantastic, Dennis Rodman (the get), Bill Clinton (the get he never got), and the one person that took him six years to finally get on the show.   Who were Dave's favorite guests? I bet you'll never guess his first response. Dave talks about what makes for a great show and who were the greatest guests.   Click here to listen to Dave's stories.   And in his new book, Behind the Curtain: An Insider's View of Jay Leno's Tonight Show,  Dave reveals what it's like to produce a hit late-night entertainment show.   ------------What do YOU think of the show? Head to JamesAltucherShow.com/listeners and fill out a short survey that will help us better tailor the podcast to our audience!Are you interested in getting direct answers from James about your question on a podcast? Go to JamesAltucherShow.com/AskAltucher and send in your questions to be answered on the air!------------Visit Notepd.com to read our idea lists & sign up to create your own!My new book, Skip the Line, is out! Make sure you get a copy wherever books are sold!Join the You Should Run for President 2.0 Facebook Group, where we discuss why you should run for President.I write about all my podcasts! Check out the full post and learn what I learned at jamesaltuchershow.com------------Thank you so much for listening! If you like this episode, please rate, review, and subscribe to "The James Altucher Show" wherever you get your podcasts: Apple PodcastsiHeart RadioSpotifyFollow me on social media:YouTubeTwitterFacebookLinkedIn See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

10 Des 201456min

Ep. 69 - Alex Blumberg: Startup, More Art Than Science

Ep. 69 - Alex Blumberg: Startup, More Art Than Science

Podcasting's future is here and this time it's for real.   We've been podcasting for years now and we've grown a very successful business doing it, but we did it behind the scenes.   Alex Blumberg thought, why not invite the audience in and let them follow him build a podcasting company. He was never sure that idea would work and spent hours and hours editing the first few episodes before launch.   He took the leap of faith, the stars aligned, and Startup - Alex's first podcast - has become a huge success.    There's real value in running a podcast network. Alex raised $1.5 million to start Gimlet Media, his network of high-quality narrative podcasts, and just launched his second podcast, Reply All.   Alex and James talk today about the difference between running a for-profit vs. a non-profit company. What are you willing to give up for money; equity, lifestyle, family life? This is a tough question for every new entrepreneur to answer and Alex is still trying to figure it all out.   So far he's off to a great start.   ------------What do YOU think of the show? Head to JamesAltucherShow.com/listeners and fill out a short survey that will help us better tailor the podcast to our audience!Are you interested in getting direct answers from James about your question on a podcast? Go to JamesAltucherShow.com/AskAltucher and send in your questions to be answered on the air!------------Visit Notepd.com to read our idea lists & sign up to create your own!My new book, Skip the Line, is out! Make sure you get a copy wherever books are sold!Join the You Should Run for President 2.0 Facebook Group, where we discuss why you should run for President.I write about all my podcasts! Check out the full post and learn what I learned at jamesaltuchershow.com------------Thank you so much for listening! If you like this episode, please rate, review, and subscribe to "The James Altucher Show" wherever you get your podcasts: Apple PodcastsiHeart RadioSpotifyFollow me on social media:YouTubeTwitterFacebookLinkedIn See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

8 Des 201457min

Ep. 68 - Loretta Graziano Breuning: Meet Your Happy Chemicals

Ep. 68 - Loretta Graziano Breuning: Meet Your Happy Chemicals

Your ups and downs are caused by brain chemicals inherited from earlier mammals.   What's exciting about that is, you can enjoy more happy chemicals if you learn how to manage your mammal brain.   Loretta writes a fantastic blog on her website Inner Mammal Institute where she digs deep into human emotions and the chemistry behind them.   She and James talk today about some of our happy chemicals: dopamine, serotonin, oxytocin, and endorphin.   "Reaching a goal triggers dopamine. That feels great, but the spurt soon ends. Then you become who you were before the spurt. If you're not comfortable with that, you can get caught up in endless efforts to stimulate more dopamine with more goal seeking."   "Unhappy chemicals evolved to alert you to survival threats. They feel bad because that gets your attention. Sometimes we can relieve unhappy chemicals by fixing the underlying problem, like eating when you're hungry or sleeping when you're tired. But some unhappy chemicals will always be there to remind you that life is finite and you're not the boss of the world."     In this a fascinating interview, James and Loretta open up and talk about their own real-life experiences. ------------What do YOU think of the show? Head to JamesAltucherShow.com/listeners and fill out a short survey that will help us better tailor the podcast to our audience!Are you interested in getting direct answers from James about your question on a podcast? Go to JamesAltucherShow.com/AskAltucher and send in your questions to be answered on the air!------------Visit Notepd.com to read our idea lists & sign up to create your own!My new book, Skip the Line, is out! Make sure you get a copy wherever books are sold!Join the You Should Run for President 2.0 Facebook Group, where we discuss why you should run for President.I write about all my podcasts! Check out the full post and learn what I learned at jamesaltuchershow.com------------Thank you so much for listening! If you like this episode, please rate, review, and subscribe to "The James Altucher Show" wherever you get your podcasts: Apple PodcastsiHeart RadioSpotifyFollow me on social media:YouTubeTwitterFacebookLinkedIn See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

5 Des 20141h 15min

Ep. 67 - Dave Asprey: Body Hacking and The Bulletproof Diet

Ep. 67 - Dave Asprey: Body Hacking and The Bulletproof Diet

Biohacking is the art and science of taking control of your own biology and Dave's revolutionary diet will make you question everything you thought you knew about raw, vegan, paleo, and every other diet out there. Dave, a Silicon Valley investor and technology entrepreneur, has spent 15 years and over $300,000 to hack his own biology. Today you'll hear his story as he tells James why he has devoted his life learning to do those things that previously seemed impossible. The first weekend James drank Bulletproof Coffee, he wrote 170 pages for his new book. Consistently sick as a child, constantly losing his focus as an adult, Dave decided to see if he could rewire his mind and his body. His brand-new book, The Bulletproof Diet, is now available. Listen here to this podcast and tell us what you think. ------------What do YOU think of the show? Head to JamesAltucherShow.com/listeners and fill out a short survey that will help us better tailor the podcast to our audience!Are you interested in getting direct answers from James about your question on a podcast? Go to JamesAltucherShow.com/AskAltucher and send in your questions to be answered on the air!------------Visit Notepd.com to read our idea lists & sign up to create your own!My new book, Skip the Line, is out! Make sure you get a copy wherever books are sold!Join the You Should Run for President 2.0 Facebook Group, where we discuss why you should run for President.I write about all my podcasts! Check out the full post and learn what I learned at jamesaltuchershow.com------------Thank you so much for listening! If you like this episode, please rate, review, and subscribe to "The James Altucher Show" wherever you get your podcasts: Apple PodcastsiHeart RadioSpotifyFollow me on social media:YouTubeTwitterFacebookLinkedIn See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

3 Des 20141h 4min

Ep. 66 - Netflix Co-Founder Mitch Lowe: Stealth Success

Ep. 66 - Netflix Co-Founder Mitch Lowe: Stealth Success

Often many of the key people who help create great companies work behind the scenes, out of the publicity spotlight. Mitch Lowe is one of these people.  As fate often has it, Mitch was working to develop another idea. While displaying at a trade show, he met Marc Randolph who happened to stop by his booth. After a long talk about DVDs Marc started to walk away. Mitch grabbed him by the back of his backpack and said, "Wait a minute, we should talk some more."  That "grab" changed his life, and Netflix was born. James asks Mitch three things he's learned from building one of the most successful companies created in the last decade. Mitch gives huge credit for the growth of Netflix to another of the original founders, Reed Hastings.  #1) Focus. Find that one thing you know you can absolutely be the best at and force yourself to drop all the others. #2) Use analytics to make decisions. Use analytics directionally; don't worry about if they're 100% sure. Just use them to point you in a direction.  #3) Pour your money into those things that are working best. Cut medium to poor performers, whether that's people or ideas. James asks Mitch why he left Netflix. You'll hear a story about a passion that he just couldn't let go of and felt he had to pursue. From Netflix to McDonalds to Quarterly.co, Mitch has quietly helped many of today's best companies continue to grow.  You don't always have to be the "name" that most people associate with growing companies to be super-successful ------------What do YOU think of the show? Head to JamesAltucherShow.com/listeners and fill out a short survey that will help us better tailor the podcast to our audience!Are you interested in getting direct answers from James about your question on a podcast? Go to JamesAltucherShow.com/AskAltucher and send in your questions to be answered on the air!------------Visit Notepd.com to read our idea lists & sign up to create your own!My new book, Skip the Line, is out! Make sure you get a copy wherever books are sold!Join the You Should Run for President 2.0 Facebook Group, where we discuss why you should run for President.I write about all my podcasts! Check out the full post and learn what I learned at jamesaltuchershow.com------------Thank you so much for listening! If you like this episode, please rate, review, and subscribe to "The James Altucher Show" wherever you get your podcasts: Apple PodcastsiHeart RadioSpotifyFollow me on social media:YouTubeTwitterFacebookLinkedIn See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

1 Des 201453min

Ep. 65 - Carol Leiffer: The Woman Who Wrote for Seinfeld

Ep. 65 - Carol Leiffer: The Woman Who Wrote for Seinfeld

Carols' new book, How To Succeed In Business Without Really Crying offers great tips and tricks for getting ahead. Not everything in life is going to work in your favor but your attitude on how you deal with this can set you apart. Carol tells James, you can set you sights on - "This is The Thing", but if you don't get that all important "thing" you can stand often stand in your own way of success. They talk about creating a comedy-writing career. Pitching a concept is a job and you have to treat it serious and Jay Leno's "Rule of Ten". Do you the best you can and don't have an attitude, as it can often get in your way.  ------------What do YOU think of the show? Head to JamesAltucherShow.com/listeners and fill out a short survey that will help us better tailor the podcast to our audience!Are you interested in getting direct answers from James about your question on a podcast? Go to JamesAltucherShow.com/AskAltucher and send in your questions to be answered on the air!------------Visit Notepd.com to read our idea lists & sign up to create your own!My new book, Skip the Line, is out! Make sure you get a copy wherever books are sold!Join the You Should Run for President 2.0 Facebook Group, where we discuss why you should run for President.I write about all my podcasts! Check out the full post and learn what I learned at jamesaltuchershow.com------------Thank you so much for listening! If you like this episode, please rate, review, and subscribe to "The James Altucher Show" wherever you get your podcasts: Apple PodcastsiHeart RadioSpotifyFollow me on social media:YouTubeTwitterFacebookLinkedIn See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

28 Nov 201429min

Ep. 64 - Dan Ariely: Dishonesty, Irrationality, and Money

Ep. 64 - Dan Ariely: Dishonesty, Irrationality, and Money

Emotions evoke an action, often an irrational one.    Irrationality is not all bad. Dan examines some of the positive effects irrationality has on our lives and offers a new look on the irrational decisions that influence our personal lives and our workplace experiences.   In this interview, Dan gives James some great examples.   Money is a relatively new invention. What's the real value of anything? Money is all about opportunity costs. You buy one thing, you give up the opportunity to spend that money on something else.   Why will you spend more money for the exact same thing if a great story is attached to it?   Dan describes what really drives us. We're driven not by reason but by reaction. Social proof is a herding invention.      This is a fantastic interview with a brilliant thinker. Listen here to the stories Dan tells. They'll change the way we see our actions, others, and ourselves. ------------What do YOU think of the show? Head to JamesAltucherShow.com/listeners and fill out a short survey that will help us better tailor the podcast to our audience!Are you interested in getting direct answers from James about your question on a podcast? Go to JamesAltucherShow.com/AskAltucher and send in your questions to be answered on the air!------------Visit Notepd.com to read our idea lists & sign up to create your own!My new book, Skip the Line, is out! Make sure you get a copy wherever books are sold!Join the You Should Run for President 2.0 Facebook Group, where we discuss why you should run for President.I write about all my podcasts! Check out the full post and learn what I learned at jamesaltuchershow.com------------Thank you so much for listening! If you like this episode, please rate, review, and subscribe to "The James Altucher Show" wherever you get your podcasts: Apple PodcastsiHeart RadioSpotifyFollow me on social media:YouTubeTwitterFacebookLinkedIn See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

26 Nov 201458min

Ep. 63 - Tucker Max: Tucker's Surprise Announcement!

Ep. 63 - Tucker Max: Tucker's Surprise Announcement!

Tucker Max, New York Times best selling author of I Hope They Serve Beer in Hell promised James that he would talk about his private life publicly first on The James Altucher Show.   And he sure doesn't disappoint.   You'll have to tune in to find out what he reveals here first... ------------What do YOU think of the show? Head to JamesAltucherShow.com/listeners and fill out a short survey that will help us better tailor the podcast to our audience!Are you interested in getting direct answers from James about your question on a podcast? Go to JamesAltucherShow.com/AskAltucher and send in your questions to be answered on the air!------------Visit Notepd.com to read our idea lists & sign up to create your own!My new book, Skip the Line, is out! Make sure you get a copy wherever books are sold!Join the You Should Run for President 2.0 Facebook Group, where we discuss why you should run for President.I write about all my podcasts! Check out the full post and learn what I learned at jamesaltuchershow.com------------Thank you so much for listening! If you like this episode, please rate, review, and subscribe to "The James Altucher Show" wherever you get your podcasts: Apple PodcastsiHeart RadioSpotifyFollow me on social media:YouTubeTwitterFacebookLinkedIn See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

24 Nov 20141h 3min

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