SpyCast

Summary David Fricker (Website; LinkedIn) had the No.2 job at Australia’s security and intelligence agency ASIO. He sat down with Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss the relationship between this role and his most recent one as Director-General of the National Archives of Australia. What You’ll Learn… Intelligence o  ASIO, the Australian intelligence landscape and the region o  His role as CIO and then Deputy-Director General of ASIO o  The role major allies & partners play including the US and Five Eyes (FVEY) o  David’s views on intelligence and public trust Reflections o  David’s abiding interest in the power of information o  The importance of museums and archives in a knowledge society And much more… Episode Notes Ever wondered what it would be like to go from gamekeeper to poacher, spy chief to chief archivist and - as this week's guest said tongue-in-cheek - the “biggest blabber-mouth in the country”? If the answer is yes, you’ll appreciate this week’s guest David Fricker, who has had all manner of interesting jobs, including a ten-year stint with the Australian Security Intelligence Organisation (ASIO), akin to the FBI and MI5, followed by ten years with the National Archives of Australia. By way of information, the “Australian Intelligence Community” is also comprised of: the Australian Secret Intelligence Service (ASIS), similar to the CIA; Defence Intelligence Organisation (DIO), similar to the DIA; the Australian Signals Directorate (ASD), similar to the NSA; and Australian Geo-spatial Intelligence Organization (AGO), similar to the NGA; and Office of National Intelligence (ONI), similar to the ODNI. And…  David was a pretty mean COBOL programmer back in the day, a computer language that grew out of a Department of Defence sponsored program to find a common business language. You can learn it here. It is a legacy software system across the U.S. government and you can command six-figure salaries if you can program in it: any retirement plans David? Quote of the Week "I think what the SPY museum does and what I hope we do at the National Archives in Australia, gets back to the public...some of it can be quite entertaining. It can be quite engaging and fun, but the work we do has got a serious message as well. And I think it's to make sure the public in a liberal democracy, the public should know. What espionage, what spycraft is all about." – David Fricker   Further Resources SpyCasts o  “Desperately, Madly in Love” – Brett Peppler and the Australian IC o  “I was a Presidential Daily Briefer on 9/11” – Mike Morell & President Bush Virtual Exhibition o  Spy: Espionage in Australia (NAA) Books o  Spies & Sparrows: ASIO & the Cold War, P. Deery (2022) o  Between Five Eyes, A. Wells (2020) o  Intelligence & the Function of Government, D. Baldino & E. Crawley (2018) o  The Official History of ASIO – 3 Volumes, D. Horner, J. Blaxland, R. Crawley (2014/2015/2016) Articles o  “Strategic Intelligence Practice in the Australian IC,” P. Walsh & M. Harrison, INS, 2021) o  “The Post-9/11 Evolution of an Australian National Security Community,” D. Jones, INS (2016) o  “ASIO Debate”, L. Clohesy, The Conversation (2014) Audio o  Spymasters & Secret Agents: the Birth of ASIO (ABC, 2022) o  ASIO’s Official History, J. Blaxland (The Conversation, 2015) Documentary o  Final Rendezvous (ABC, 2020) Websites o  ASIO (ASIO) o  NAA (NAA) Primary Sources o  Letter to Petrov from Prime Minister Menzies (1954) o  Royal Commission on Espionage Report (1955) o  ASIO Report on Ric Throssell (1971-74, NAA) o  Report on ASIO (NLA, 1977) o  Australian Intelligence, 1900-1950 (NAA, 1977) o  Soviet Embassy Contact with Members of Parliament (1971-86) o  ASIO Annual Report 2020-21 (2021, ASIO) Further Research o  History of Intelligence & Security (NAA) o  US-Australia Diplomatic Oral Histories (ADST) Wildcard Resource Pine Gap o  A fictional portrayal of a real-world AUS-US spy site in Central Australia (Netflix, 2018) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

15 Feb 20221h 4min

Summary Joe Weisberg (Twitter) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss his new book on Russia. Joe is the creator of award-winning TV drama The Americans and a former CIA officer. What You’ll Learn Intelligence o  His past experience as a hardliner who loved to hate the “evil empire” o  His thoughts on a trip through the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe in the twilight of the Cold War, especially experiencing it as an American Jew o  His interpretation of the KGB and Vladimir Putin o  His take on the “moral equivalency” argument and U.S. foreign policy ·Reflections o  The role of complexity vs. simplicity in understanding “the Other” o  Joe’s journey from the Chicago suburbs of Illinois to Langley to New York City And much, much more… Episode Notes “How dare you, Joe Weisberg, make me rethink my comfortable loathing of the Russians.” Not Andrew’s words, but those of former chief of CIA counterintelligence James Olson in an encomium for the book (albeit a little tongue-in-cheek). If that is not enough to get you intrigued in Joe’s new book, Russia Upside Down, then perhaps the sub-title will, An Exit Strategy for the Second Cold War. So how do we get out of the Second Cold War? To find out Joe’s diagnosis and prognosis, and much else besides, Andrew sat down with him for this week’s episode. A fair number of listeners will know of Joe as creator of the award-winning and hugely popular TV series, The Americans, some may even know that he had a three-and-a-half-year stint in the CIA where he trained to be a case officer; a few may even be a know him from his stint at the Agency which began on the eve of the dissolution of the Soviet Union. And… The Americans is set in and around NoVa which is replete with all manner of famous sites from intelligence history – including the Arlington home of real-life Russian illegals Nataliya Pereverzeva and Michael Zottoli Mikhail Kutsik who were rolled up by the FBI in 2010 as part of Operation Ghost Stories” which we cover in our exhibits. Quote of the Week "When I was working at the CIA and in my younger years, I had a very one-dimensional view of this evil empire, this totalitarian state that we had to fight because we were the good guys, and we were the bad guys. And the book that I've written is essentially a kind of argument with myself or me with my younger self to say, huh, I think you were not looking at that in all the complexity that you might have." – Joe Weisberg FURTHER RESOURCES SpyCasts o  KGB Illegal Jack Barsky here and here o  The Spymasters Prism: CIA Legend Jack Devine on Countering Russian Aggression o  2010 Russian Spy Case – KGB Major General Oleg Kalugin o  Spy Sites of Washington D.C. Books o  Putin’s People: How the KGB Took Back Russia, Catherine Belton (2020) o  The New Tsar: Rise & Reign of Vladimir Putin, Steven Lee Myers (2016). o  Spy Handler: Memoir of a KGB Officer - The Man Who Recruited Robert Hanssen & Aldrich Ames, Victor Cherkashin (2004) o  The Caucasus, Thomas De Waal (2018) o  Khrushchev's Thaw and National Identity in Soviet Azerbaijan, Jamil Hasanli (2014) o  The Best Books on Contemporary Russia (Five Books) Articles o  “Dictatorship and Double Standards,” Jeane Kirkpatrick, Commentary (1979) o  NATO Enlargement & Russia (NATO, 2014) o  “False Equivalence” & “Tu Quoque”, IEP Documentaries o  The Putin Interviews (ShowTime, 2017) o  Cold War 2.0, Vice/HBO (2015) Primary Sources o  Russian-Chinese Relations (CIA, 1998) o  Putin’s Munich Speech, (WaPo, 2007) o  Interview With KGB/SVR Illegal (Chekist Monitor, 2020) o  U.S. Ambassadors to Russia Interviewed (NSA) o  US-Russia Oral Histories (ADST) o  Archival Research on Russia (NSA) Enjoy the show? Please leave a review here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

8 Feb 20221h 1min

Summary David Cattler (Twitter; LinkedIn) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss how intelligence functions at NATO. He is the NATO Assistant Secretary General for Intelligence and Security. What You’ll Learn o  What it is like to be the leader of intelligence and security across the largest peacetime alliance in history? o  How does intelligence come together at NATO – who are the key-players, institutions, and stakeholders? o  What are some of the main challenges facing the Alliance including Russia and Cyber? o  “Reading” an institution and its key players o  The importance of “soft skills” in professional life Episode Notes Every polisci student knows from their Plato to NATO class, that NATO is (a) considered the most successful alliance of its kind in history and (b) was founded in 1949. As you can imagine, intelligence is incredibly important to the whole endeavor, so why has NATO only had an intelligence supremo since 2016? To find out the answer, and much else besides, Andrew sat down with David Cattler. David is (a) the principal advisor on intelligence to the NATO Secretary General and (b) the lead for coordinating intelligence relationships between NATO and the 75 individual intelligence agencies across its 30 constituent nations (talk about herding cats). With Russian forces built up on the Ukrainian border in February 2022, the timing of this episode is, well, germane. And… Andrew picked David up outside the U.S. Department of State and drove him to the SpyCast studio at SPY – if the traffic is right, you can do it in under 10 minutes! Quote of the Week  "The secretary general is my boss but imagine him in this context to put it in a different frame is that he is the CEO of a large international conglomerate that engages in multiple business lines. And I am the CEO of the business line for intelligence and security. The nation's intelligence services in effect are my corporate board. So, they provide that governance and the oversight for all the work." – David Cattler Further Resources SpyCasts o  Able Archer 83: An Interview with Nate Jones o  Our Latest Long War: An Interview with Ben Jones Books o  Enduring Alliance: A History of NATO & the Postwar Global Order, Timothy Andrews Sayle (2019) o  How NATO Adapts: Strategy & Organization in the Alliance Since 1950, Seth A. Johnson (2017) o  The Memoirs of General Lord Ismay, Lord Ismay (1960) o  Present at the Creation, Dean Acheson (1969) o  The Best Books on Contemporary Russia (Five Books) Video o  What is NATO, Why Does it Exist, and How Does it Work? (NATO) o  How Does a Country Join NATO? (NATO) Documentary o  The Cold War, Narrated by Kenneth Branagh (CNN 1998) Websites o  NATO Declassified (NATO) o  NATO (Atlantic Council) o  NATO (RUSI) Primary Sources o  The North Atlantic Treaty (1949) o  Address by Harry S. Truman on the Signing of the North Atlantic Treaty (1949) o  North Atlantic Council – First Session – Summary Minutes (1949) o  Historical Holdings on NATO (Eisenhower Library) o  The NATO Problem: French Forces in Europe (CIA, 1966) o  Being NATO’s Secretary General on 9/11 (2011) o  USNATO Oral Histories (ADST) Enjoy the show? Please leave a review here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

1 Feb 20221h 1min

"The Wright Brothers of the U.S. Drone Warfare Program." That is how some people have referred to this week's guests, Alec Bierbauer and Mark Cooter. Andrew sat down with them to dig into drones and their intelligence implications. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

25 Jan 20221h

This was the most popular episode of 2020. Apparently, people are interested in the views of former GCHQ Director, Joint Intelligence Committee Chair, and first UK Security and Intelligence Coordinator on, well - how spies think. I am sure David – now a Visiting Professor at Kings College, London – has a few thoughts on the subject. Hear Andrew debrief this week’s guest on the insights derived from a career spent at the summit of British intelligence. 1 Book, 2 Glaswegians, 10 Lessons in Intelligence. It’s simple, really. Sláinte! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

18 Jan 20221h 1min

Alexis Albion – star of our 500th episode anniversary special – is a very good friend of the current Undersecretary for Arms Control & International Security, Bonnie Jenkins. Way back when, they were both on the 9/11 Commission Report – while Alexis’ focus was on the CIA and counterterrorism before the attacks, Bonnie’s was on the DOD and counterterrorism – tiny subjects, I know. In this week’s episode, hear two old friends reminisce, reflect, and put the world to rights. Move over Saturn, get out of the way Jupiter, two huge brains are a comin’ through. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

11 Jan 202254min

Spook. Warrior. Author. This week’s guest is one helluva interesting guy. He was in a clandestine Special Forces unit in Berlin during the Cold War, “stay behinds” who would sabotage, subvert and generally wreak havoc should World War III break out. He was badly wounded after driving over a land-mine in Somalia in 1992, almost losing his entire leg and suffering a serious head injury. In a subsequent life, James was a CIA officer in Africa when the US embassies were blown up in Kenya and Tanzania and saw the Agency pivot in the aftermath of 9/11. Oh, did I mention, he also dabbles in combat archaeology. “Hours and hours of boredom punctuated by moments of sheer terror.” If this sounds like your last trip down the I-95, listening to your blowhard uncle at Thanksgiving, or what it’s like to watch Jets vs. Giants, it’s purely coincidence – for it’s how this week’s guest characterized Army life. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

4 Jan 202251min

Project Prometheus. In the words of ex-Delta Force author Brad Taylor, “Super Double Daddy Bad Classified.” If you’re looking to find a podcast that helps break down the complexities of Chinese foreign policy through the vehicle of a page-turner written by a NYT Bestselling Author, you’ve arrived at the right doorstep my friend. Brad does serious research. He is also funny, down-to-earth, and super-duper interesting. Por ejemplo, on his first date with his now wife, he told her he was going to join Special Forces and write a novel – after 21 years in the military, including many years in a special mission unit, Brad has now written 15. We talk through American Traitor, Pike Logan, his writing process (and Chinese foreign policy). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

28 Des 202150min