The Economist's Mike Bird Debates Noah on Industrial Policy

Today we’re publishing a debate about industrial policy between Noah and Mike Bird, the Asia business and finance editor at The Economist. Noah highlights the importance of steering the economy to ensure that industries align with national goals and priorities. Bird questions the effectiveness of industrial policy, especially in developed countries. He argues that market forces and competition should determine the allocation of resources, rather than government intervention. Where do you stand? If you’re looking for an ERP platform, check out our sponsor, NetSuite: http://netsuite.com/turpentine  We're hiring across the board at Turpentine and for Erik's personal team on other projects he's incubating. He's hiring a Chief of Staff, EA, Head of Special Projects, Investment Associate, and more. For a list of JDs, check out: eriktorenberg.com. -- Sponsors: GIVEWELL | DAFFY | NETSUITE  Have you ever wondered where your donation could have the most impact? GiveWell has now spent over 15 years researching charitable organizations and only directs funding to the highest impact opportunities they’ve found in global health and poverty alleviation. Make informed decisions about high-impact giving. If you’ve never donated through GiveWell before, you can have your donation matched up to $100 before the end of the year, or as long as matching funds last. To claim your match, go to givewell.org and pick “Podcast” and enter Econ 102 at checkout.  Daffy is the most modern and accessible donor-advised fund, making it easier to put money aside for charity. You can make your tax-deductible contributions all at once or set aside a little each week or month. And you don’t just have to donate cash, you can easily contribute stocks, ETFs, or crypto. Plus, you never have to track receipts from your donations again. It’s free to get started and Econ 102 listeners get $25 towards the charity of their choice. Daffy is offering Econ 102 listeners a free $25 for the charity of their choice when they join Daffy https://www.daffy.org/econ102  NetSuite has 25 years of providing financial software for all your business needs. More than 36,000 businesses have already upgraded to NetSuite by Oracle, gaining visibility and control over their financials, inventory, HR, eCommerce, and more. If you’re looking for an ERP platform head to NetSuite http://netsuite.com/102 and download your own customized KPI checklist. -- Econ 102 is part of the Turpentine podcast network. Learn more: www.turpentine.co -- TIMESTAMPS:  (00:00) Episode Preview (01:23) How this debate came about (02:25) Why doesn’t The Economist have bylines? (04:55) Chris Odendahl of The Economist’s article saying the focus on manufacturing policy is a delusion (09:15) Is Korea the paragon of industrial policy? (11:20) Overlooking military spending and the chip industry (15:19) Industrial policy crucial for national security (17:42) Sponsor: NetSuite (18:45) Gish Gallop: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop (19:14) Complexity of policy implementation (20:30) The exercise metaphor: multiple benefits (29:34) Subsidies may not ensure resilience (40:33) Balancing goals in geopolitics (43:40) Carbon pricing  (51:45) Manufacturing jobs (53:35) Leveraging local multipliers (agglomeration effects) (1:00:56) Industrial policy can have multiple benefits (1:03:02) Local multipliers benefit economic activity (1:09:24) Need for rigorous economic analysis (1:19:27) Determined optimism drives progress (1:20:05) Friend-shoring is often highly preferable to reshoring -- TWITTER: @birdyword (Mike) @noahpinion (Noah) @eriktorenberg (Erik) -- This show is produced by Turpentine: a network of podcasts, newsletters, and more, covering technology, business, and culture — all from the perspective of industry insiders and experts. We’re launching new shows every week, and we’re looking for industry-leading sponsors — if you think that might be you and your company, email us at erik@turpentine.co.