Hamas’s Bloody Arithmetic

To much of the outside world, Hamas’s decision to murder hundreds of Israelis and trigger a war that has since killed many thousands of its own people looks like a historic miscalculation — one that could soon result in the destruction of Hamas itself.Hamas’s leaders, however, say that it was the result of a deliberate calculation.Ben Hubbard, the Istanbul bureau chief for The New York Times, has been reporting on their decision, and what went into it.Guest: Ben Hubbard, the Istanbul bureau chief for The New York Times.Background reading: Behind Hamas’s bloody gambit to create a “permanent” state of war.It took American and Qatari diplomacy, and self-interested decisions by Hamas, to bring two hostages safely back to Israel.Here’s the latest on the war.For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily. Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday. Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.