excellence, actually11 Dec 2025

"It's Never All Bad:" How to Suffer (with Matt Fitzgerald)

At some point, we're all going to suffer. So what if you treated it as a practice—something to be done skillfully? This was the question Matt posed to himself when he came back to running in his late twenties, after quitting the sport following his senior spring season of high school track. He said he'd become fearful of the pain of racing. He was scared to suffer. He's spent the last two and a half decades mastering his mind. In the time since, he's become a successful run coach, an endurance athlete, and a writer. And he's learned many valuable lessons about what it is to suffer. (Most recently, while dealing with a particularly bad bout of long Covid that left him incapable of exercise for long periods of time, he suffered through a 100K in 90-degree heat on minimal training.) Today, he talks about the mantra he uses to get himself through difficult moments, the most common mistakes he sees athletes making over and over again throughout his years of coaching, why never being satisfied is a good thing, and his practice of what he calls "benevolent shaming."

Click here for an AI-generated, unedited transcript

Click to pre-order Brad's new book, "The Way of Excellence," which Steve Kerr, nine-time NBA Champion, is calling "an absolutely beautiful book"

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