What If the Compliment Is the Most Triggering Thing in the Room?

In this episode of In Conversation with Janina Fisher: Wisdom Between Colleagues—Insights for Us All, Janina Fisher, PhD, sits down with longtime friend, collaborator, and trauma therapist Lisa Ferentz, LCSW-C, DAPA, for a spirited, heartfelt, and refreshingly honest conversation on the art of psychotherapy. Together, they explore what it means to truly work in an integrative, client-centered way—where healing is not prescribed from a manual but discovered collaboratively, through relationship, creativity, and humility.

Lisa reflects on her decades of experience as a therapist, educator, and founder of the Ferentz Institute, where she trains clinicians across modalities. She shares the philosophy behind her best-selling book Letting Go of Self-Destructive Behaviors and its accompanying workbook, as well as her more recent publication Finding Your Ruby Slippers, a guided journey in accessing one’s inner wisdom. Drawing inspiration from The Wizard of Oz, Lisa offers a deeply compassionate, empowering lens for understanding trauma survivors—not as broken or resistant, but as protectively adaptive.

This episode touches on:

• Why integration beats allegiance to any single model

• The difference between being a “baker” vs. a “cook” in therapy

• How parts work, somatics, and expressive modalities intersect organically

• Why terms like “resistant” and “avoidant” do more harm than good

• The “phobia of vulnerability” and what it really signals

• How clinicians can be creative, sneaky, and humble in equal measure

• Why modeling self-compassion matters more than teaching it

• Janina and Lisa’s shared belief: the client is always the expert on the client

With warmth, laughter, and remarkable alignment, Janina and Lisa discuss how they’ve both spent decades advocating for a strengths-based, non-pathologizing, and emotionally nuanced approach to trauma treatment. They reflect on the early days of their friendship (which began at an empty book signing table!), and why both believe in weaving rather than worshipping therapeutic modalities.

Whether you’re a seasoned clinician, a student just beginning the journey, or a survivor in search of hope, this conversation is filled with insight, validation, and encouragement. As Lisa puts it, “Be a cook, not a baker”—therapy isn’t about perfect recipes. It’s about presence, attunement, and the courage to trust both your client and yourself.

Lisa is a recognized expert in the strengths-based, de-pathologized treatment of trauma and has been in private practice for over 40 years. She presents workshops and keynote addresses nationally and internationally, and is a clinical consultant to practitioners and mental health agencies in the United States, Canada, the UK, Italy, Ireland, Spain, and Israel. She has been an Adjunct Faculty member at several Universities, and is the Founder of “The Ferentz Institute,” now in its eighteenth year of providing continuing education to mental health professionals and graduating thousands of clinicians from her two Certificate Programs in Advanced Trauma Treatment. In 2009 she was voted the “Social Worker of Year” by the Maryland Society for Clinical Social Work. Lisa is the author of “Treating Self-Destructive Behaviors in Traumatized Clients: A Clinician’s Guide,” now in its second edition, “Letting Go of Self-Destructive Behaviors: A Workbook of Hope and Healing,” and “Finding Your Ruby Slippers: Transformative Life Lessons From the Therapist’s Couch.” Lisa also hosted a weekly radio talk show, writes blogs and articles for websites on trauma, attachment, self-destructive behaviors, and self-care, teaches on many webinars, and is a contributor to Psychologytoday.com.

You can follow Lisa’s work on her website, theferentzinstitute.com, YouTube, LinkedIn and Twitter.