You Can See the Proof That You're Loved and Still Not Feel It

In this episode of In Conversation with Janina Fisher, Janina sits down with clinical psychologist Paul Gilbert, the founder of Compassion-Focused Therapy, for a rich and reflective dialogue on shame, compassion, and the evolutionary roots of suffering. Drawing on over four decades of clinical work and research, Gilbert explores how shame is not simply a personal failing but a deeply embedded, biologically shaped experience tied to our need for social belonging. Together, Janina and Paul examine how threat-based systems dominate in trauma survivors, and why cultivating compassion can be both profoundly challenging and profoundly healing.

This conversation weaves together science, clinical insight, and personal reflection, illuminating how compassion can transform our relationship to ourselves and others. For therapists and curious listeners, this episode offers a powerful reframe: healing is not about eliminating pain, but about changing how we meet it.

• Shame is evolutionarily wired, not a personal defect

• The brain is shaped for survival, not happiness

• Compassion-Focused Therapy offers a pathway to safety

• Healing happens when clients can safely experience something different

• Clinicians play a crucial role in embodying and transmitting compassion, helping clients internalize it over time.

• Moving away from blame and toward curiosity is a foundational step in trauma recovery.

Paul Gilbert Bio

Paul Gilbert, FBPsS, PhD, OBE is Professor of Clinical Psychology at the University of Derby and honorary visiting Prof at the University of Queensland. Until his retirement from the NHS in 2016 he was Consultant Clinical Psychologist for over 40 years. He has researched evolutionary approaches to psychopathology with a special focus on mood, shame and self-criticism in various mental health difficulties for which Compassion Focused Therapy was developed. He was made a Fellow of the British Psychological Society in 1993, president of the BABCP 2002-2004, and was a member of the first British Governments’ NICE guidelines for depression. He has written/edited 23 books and over 300 papers and book chapters. In 2006 he established the Compassionate Mind Foundation as an international charity with the mission statement: To promote wellbeing through the scientific understanding and application of compassion (www.compassionatemind.co.uk). There are now a number of sister foundations in other countries. He was awarded an OBE by the Queen in March 2011 for services to mental health. He established and is the Director of the Centre for Compassion Research and Training at Derby University UK. His latest book is a major edited book with Prof G Simos (2022) Compassion: Clinical practice and Applications (Routledge).

www.compassionatemind.co.uk

www.profpaulgilbert.co.uk

Key papers and links to further publications

Compassion: From Its Evolution to a Psychotherapy

Creating a Compassionate World: Addressing the Conflicts Between Sharing and Caring Versus Controlling and Holding Evolved Strategies

Google Scholar Profile

For recent videos series: Creating Compassionate World Interview Series

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Did you know? Results of a meta-analysis suggest CFT is effective in reducing symptoms of depression, anxiety and self-criticism. Access the paper for free.