Sara Groves: Are You a 'Mom and Pop' or a Walmart?

Sara Groves is on the Mount Rushmore of Christian singer-songwriters, but this conversation is less about the catalog and more about the life she's been quietly building offstage. Sara joins Andrew to talk about trading a 4,000-square-foot suburban house for a 700-square-foot home down the street from an old church, and what it's taken to keep Art House North — a community arts space in Minnesota — running for fifteen years. Sara also reflects on creativity as a practice for everyone, not just artists, stating her belief that "Beauty will save us," — and why the second half of life might be when you finally start making your most honest work.

Thought-Provoking Quotes:

"When you're young, you look ahead and think 'if I want to head there, I probably should turn in that direction.’ And then so much happens that you're like — ‘some of it happened because you turned that way, but a lot of it happened because of just, yeah, this isn't doing it anymore.’" - Sara Groves

"If you make community the point, you'll kill it. You have to be in mission together to some end." - Sara Groves

"The people who already had a thing going are not coming to your thing because they're already tending a fire. So you're gathering people who were looking for a fire." - Sara Groves

"God is the ocean and we keep writing about a cup of water. I started writing about the ocean with ‘Add to the Beauty.’" - Sara Groves

"My songs used to be weaponized belief system songs. And now they're not. They're just bearing witness songs. I'm just bearing witness to what it means to be human." - Sara Groves

"You're always invited to the party that you throw. So throw a party. Play to the room you can fill. If you have 50 friends, play in a room for 45 and have five standing at the back. That's gonna be a really fun night." - Sara Groves

"I think everyone should have a creative habit in the same way they have a fitness habit — whether they're a doctor or whoever they are. Beauty will save us." - Sara Groves

Links, Products, and Resources Mentioned:

Sara Groves’ website

Sara Groves Patreon

Art House North

IJM (International Justice Mission)

Add to the Beauty — Sara Groves

Fireflies and Songs — Sara Groves

Invisible Empires — Sara Groves

"Obsolete" — Sara Groves

"Mystery" — Sara Groves

"Take It All In" — Sara Groves

*Watch this interview on Andrew’s YouTube channel!

*All episode music is by Andrew Osenga.

Guest’s Links:

Sara Groves’ website

Sara Groves’ Facebook

Sara Groves’ Instagram

Sara Groves’ X

Sara Groves’ YouTube

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How to Remember by Andrew Osenga

Hold the Light by Andrew Osenga

*The Pivot is produced in conjunction with

Four Eyes Media

.