Episode #13 feat. Gary Meagher

What happens when an intellectual Enneagram 5 complains to Father Richard Rohr about sleeping on a one-inch mattress, only to be told, "That's exactly the point"?

In this thirteenth episode of Follow Me to the M-R-O-P!, host Brian Mueller sits down with Gary Meagher for a deeply reflective conversation about his 2008 initiation at Pilgrim Park, Illinois . Gary shares how he arrived at the rites as a 55-year-old seeking to jump into the "deep end of the pool" like a pearl diver searching for a greater connection. He reflects on how the visceral, shock value of the weekend forced him out of his comfortable "thinking head" and into a space of profound vulnerability.

Gary recounts the three "North Stars" given by Ritual Elder Stephen Picha—embracing nature, contemplative practice, and a community of men—that continue to guide his life nearly two decades later. From walking a "path of equals" with his father in his final years to comparing the rites to his 38-day pilgrimage on the Camino de Santiago, Gary’s story is a beautiful testament to the "haunting" power of true initiation.

Episode Highlights

• The 1-Inch Mattress: Why a breakfast conversation helped Gary realize he was in liminal space, not on a retreat.
• The Pearl Diver: How reaching age 55 sparked a hunger to dive into the unknown and search for the "pearl" of connection.
• Three North Stars: The post-rites instructions to embrace nature, centering prayer, and male community that Gary still follows.
• Fathers and Sons: Letting go of generational wounds to walk a healing "path of equals" with his aging father.
• The Camino Connection: Why Gary views the MROP as a pinnacle, "haunting" life experience akin to walking across Spain.

Links & Resources

• Choosing Presence (Sponsor): https://choosingpresence.org
• Practicing Presence App: https://choosingpresence.org/app
• Illuman MROP page: https://illuman.org/mrop
• Adam's Return by Richard Rohr: https://amzn.to/3PzVESH
• Falling Upward by Richard Rohr: https://amzn.to/4uUM64P
• Breathing Under Water by Richard Rohr: https://amzn.to/47qLNVp
• Host: https://brianmueller.com

Credits

• First and foremost, thank you to Gary Meagher for sharing his journey and his heart with us today.
• Thank you to Fr. Richard Rohr and the men of Illuman who have stewarded the Men’s Rites of Passage since 1996.
• Thank you to Jim Heaney and Jim Taylor for their dedication to Choosing Presence.

Music Credits:

• Slow Mo Dreams by Soundroll
• Becoming a Legend by Vens Adams