Episode 078 Deep Dive: The Psychology of Design Systems with Ben Callahan and Kacey Wood

On Episode 078, Ben Callahan is joined by Kacey Wood, Product Designer for Design Systems at Tabs and member of Redwoods design system community. She and Ben open the floor to the community on the psychological side of systems work.

The survey went out to over 1,100 design system practitioners and drew 50 responses across four questions. The community digs into reactance theory, where influence becomes manipulation, power dynamics and reporting structure, the behavioral concepts behind buy-in, and what any of this means when the consumer is an AI agent.

Show Notes
00:04 — Welcome and episode framing
00:36 — Kacey Wood's path from data analytics to design systems
01:21 — Building 0 to 1 at BetMGM, then starting over at Tabs
03:45 — The four questions we asked this week
04:41 — 50 responses from over 1,100 practitioners
09:12 — Janesa Chan on how org placement shapes perception
10:43 — Nobody relies on just one buy-in tactic
11:38 — Data isn't enough, the story is what convinces
12:31 — Peter Allen on collaboration versus mandate
13:27 — Guy Segal challenges the influence/manipulation framing
15:08 — Kacey on whether you're willing to lose
16:11 — Steven Deeds on manipulation as disingenuous influence
18:37 — Reactance theory, explained through a picky eater
20:03 — Daniel Florez on skin in the game
21:01 — Janesa Chan on giving designers the choice
22:53 — Amy Ogg on power dynamics and reporting lines
25:19 — Guy Segal on why educating people doesn't work
28:40 — Endowment effect, curse of knowledge, social proof
29:36 — The IKEA effect and giving people a win
31:00 — Aristotle's modes of persuasion
33:58 — Rebecca Ostrich on not condescending to people
38:19 — ToniAnn Drenckhahn: design systems makes me a better person
39:17 — Kyle Hyams on soft skills over craft
41:22 — AI has no reactance, so what changes?
43:56 — Peter Allen's personal note to his AI agents

Where to Find the Hosts
Ben Callahan is Founder of Sparkbox (https://sparkbox.com) and Redwoods Design System Community (https://bencallahan.com/redwoods). Read his writings, have him present at your event, or engage with him as a coach or consultant at https://bencallahan.com

Kacey Wood is a Product Designer for Design Systems at Tabs, previously building systems at BetMGM and EY. Connect with her here: https://bit.ly/4aOYcV0

Get the Raw Data
Access the complete survey data from Episode 078 to conduct your own analysis: https://bit.ly/4w3P47v

Review the FigJam Notes
Dig into the collaborative notes we took as a community during the deep dive: https://bit.ly/4fhdlkz

Join the Conversation
The Question explores design systems topics through community research and deep-dive discussions. Participate in future episodes and contribute to the next survey: https://bit.ly/answerTheQuestion

Music licensed through Soundstripe.
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