"We Knew What Was Normal": Midwifery and the Long View with Gail Hart

In this powerful and unfiltered conversation, elder midwife Gail Hart reflects on a lifetime of birth work shaped by lived experience, deep physiology, and a fierce commitment to women’s autonomy. From her early exposure to home birth in a religious commune, to a traumatic hospital delivery that changed everything, to helping shape Oregon’s midwifery culture, Gail shares the kind of perspective only decades of hands-on midwifery can offer. She reminds us that fear is not the foundation for wise care—and that true knowing comes from touch, time, and trust.

Gail shares:

• Her peripatetic childhood in Hawai‘i and California, and her early political awakening
• Discovering midwifery in a communal religious group through apprenticeship and hands-on learning
• Her own traumatic hospital birth and how it galvanized her path
• Attending the Northwest School of Practical Midwifery and launching into community practice
• The cooperative, peer-led model of early Oregon midwifery—and what was lost with formal licensure
• How licensing systems shifted midwifery away from intuition and toward liability-driven care
• The risks of book-heavy midwifery education that lacks embodied learning
• What she believes causes the rise in interventions, fear-based care, and “emergencies” that aren’t
• The physiological wisdom of waiting—on shoulders, placentas, and newborn breath
• Why she believes peaceful people often begin with peaceful births

Further Reading & Support:

People & Midwives

• Carla Hartley – Founder of Ancient Art Midwifery Institute; a vocal advocate for traditional midwifery outside licensure models.
• Margaret Miles – Author of A Textbook for Midwives, emphasizing non-interventionist, woman-centered care.
• Michel Odent – French obstetrician who pioneered water birth and promoted undisturbed, hormonally intact birth.
• Pat Edmonds – Midwife known for grounding her practice in normal physiology and calm presence.
• Dr. Max Miracle – Adventist doctor who supported natural childbirth after witnessing robust outcomes in rural South America.
• Frédérick Leboyer & Fernand Lamaze – Influential figures in natural birth reform; Lamaze popularized structured breathing, while Leboyer advocated for gentle, sensory-safe birth.
• The McMenamin Brothers – Oregon hoteliers who restored the Edgefield Hotel, where this interview was recorded.
• Northwest School of Practical Midwifery – A hands-on Oregon midwifery school co-led by naturopaths and chiropractors that operated in the late 1970s, eventually closing as licensure models took hold. It helped launch Portland’s first Birth Center and emphasized clinical experience rooted in physiology.

Books & Resources

• A Textbook for Midwives by Margaret Miles
• A foundational manual blending common-sense midwifery with practical instruction grounded in normal physiology.
• (Out of print; available via libraries and resale platforms.)
• Birth Without Violence by Frédérick Leboyer
• A poetic call to treat birth as sacred—quiet, gentle, and baby-centered.
• Read on Internet Archive →
• The Scientification of Love by Michel Odent
• Explores the neurohormonal basis of love and birth, and the damage done by unnecessary interference.
• More info →
• Life Magazine on Twilight Sleep
• Referenced as a cultural artifact promoting scopolamine use during birth, separating mothers from babies.
• Context article →

Studies & Legal Precedents

• Placental Resuscitation
• Mercer, J.S. et al. Delayed cord clamping: Providing placental transfusion and more.
• PubMed →
• Bhatt, S. et al. Delaying cord clamping improves cardiovascular function and oxygenation in preterm lambs.
• PubMed →
• Oregon Attorney General Opinion (1970s)
• Affirmed that attending normal birth is not the practice of medicine when no drugs or surgery are involved.
• (Not publicly archived; cited in Oregon midwifery legal records.)

Thank you to all the elders, donations and volunteers that have made this project possible.

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Podcast Editor: Shea Lyons

Archivist and Producer: Blyss Young

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