The Data Behind Degrees, Jobs, AI, and ROI with Courtney Brown (Lumina Foundation)

On this podcast, Courtney and I dig into the data behind the college-to-career transition. We examine the doom narrative that's scaring families away from higher education and why the headlines don't match what the research shows. We talk about why curiosity and relationships matter so much for success after college, and how students can shift from chasing opportunities to aligning with them. Courtney also shares the questions families should be asking before committing to a school. Check out her articles below.

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About Courtney:

Courtney Brown, Ph.D., is vice president of impact and planning for Lumina Foundation, an independent, private foundation in Indianapolis that is committed to making opportunities for learning beyond high school available to all. She serves as the foundation’s chief data and research officer and leads Lumina’s strategic planning, research, evaluation, data, and learning efforts, ensuring the organization’s work is grounded in evidence, continuous learning, and measurable progress toward increased educational attainment. She also oversees Lumina’s international engagement, working with global partners to share insights that strengthen postsecondary education systems.

With more than 25 years of experience in leadership, strategic planning, and research, Brown has dedicated her career to using data to improve education and workforce outcomes.

Lumina Foundation https://www.luminafoundation.org/

Check out Courtney's blogs for more insight:

USA Today op-ed: College graduates face a better job market than you think https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2026/05/26/college-degree-job-market-hiring/90144602007/

The AI debate is over. Students have already decided https://www.luminafoundation.org/news-and-views/the-ai-debate-is-over-students-have-already-decided/

The rules changed while they were in class https://www.luminafoundation.org/news-and-views/the-rules-changed-while-they-were-in-class/

The degree isn't dead, but it's on trial https://www.luminafoundation.org/news-and-views/the-degree-isnt-dead-but-its-on-trial/

What if the story we're telling about college is wrong? https://www.luminafoundation.org/news-and-views/what-if-the-story-were-telling-about-college-is-wrong/

Proving higher education's promise: We increased attainment. Now, to show value. https://www.luminafoundation.org/news-and-views/proving-higher-educations-promise-we-increased-attainment-now-to-show-value/

Chapters

00:00 Intro 04:14 Courtney's Research Background 07:56 Debunking the Doom Narrative 11:43 Micro-Internships and AI Hiring 16:16 Remote Work and Reframing Networking 19:38 Rejection, Risk, and Unconventional Paths 26:48 What Employers Actually Want 27:36 Is College Worth $100k? 30:07 Lumina's Attainment Goal 34:39 Risk, ROI, and School Guarantees 37:56 Financial Fitness and Alumni Data 43:44 Questions to Ask Every School 46:00 Loneliness and Mental Health 48:49 Alumni Mentors and Career Coaching 50:11 Students vs. Institutions on AI 51:39 Aligning With Opportunity 53:09 Closing Thoughts

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