The science behind food that isn’t food, why you love it and why you should not fear it all | Prof Tim Spector & Prof Sarah Berry

Are some of your "healthy" foods actually high-risk ultra-processed foods? For decades, nutrition advice seemed relatively straightforward. Eat less sugar. Less salt. Less saturated fat. Then it all fell apart. In today’s episode, we examine the research that has forced us to rethink what makes food harmful in the first place. Two of the world’s leading nutrition scientists, Professor Tim Spector and Professor Sarah Berry, tell their own story of why they’ve changed their minds about it. We explore why sugar, salt and fat aren’t the whole story, explain why ultra-processed foods are making us sick, and share groundbreaking insight that only a small portion of them are really harmful. By the end of the episode, you’ll know what to watch out for and what to worry less about when you’re food shopping. Next time you reach for a "healthy" yogurt or a quick pasta sauce, would you still choose it if you knew exactly how it was made? 🌱 Try our science-backed and tasty wholefood supplement Daily30 🌿Let your gut microbes snack on the ZOE Gut Health Bar Build healthy habits. Download the ZOE app today and start your trial for just £2.30 for your first week. 👉 Join ZOE Follow ZOE on Instagram. Timecodes 00:00 Intro 02:24 The biggest myth about spotting ultra-processed food 07:52 How much of your diet is actually ultra-processed 12:09 Why people ate 500 more calories on ultra-processed food 13:47 The study that changed how scientists see ultra-processed food 17:52 The hidden artificial sweeteners nobody noticed they were eating 20:29 What sweeteners did to mice in this gut bacteria experiment 23:57 What emulsifiers might be doing to your gut lining 28:27 Why food additive combinations are impossible to track 31:30 Can food texture alone change how much you eat? 33:08 Two ultra-processed diets, 369 calories apart 37:10 How the tobacco industry invented food's "bliss point" 39:33 Why hyperpalatable food makes you eat the whole bag 42:17 Does skipping cakes and soda avoid ultra-processed food? 46:38 The "ultra-processed" foods that are actually protective 48:32 How ZOE built its own ultra-processed food risk score 51:01 Why 72 calories a minute is one sign of a risky food 53:48 The 25% of ultra-processed food causing most of the harm 56:11 The one-question test for spotting ultra-processed food 59:32 ZOE says 25% of food is high risk, not NOVA's 60% 01:01:54 Why some "healthy" yogurts are full of hidden sweeteners 01:03:16 Why children's food is designed to make kids overeat 01:05:41 Two pestos, one full of hidden sweeteners 01:10:20 Ultra-processed food uses the same trick as cigarettes 01:11:41 Why you shouldn't fear all processed food 📚Books by our ZOE Scientists The Food For Life Cookbook Every Body Should Know This by Dr Federica Amati The Appetite Reset by Dr Federica Amati Food For Life by Prof. Tim Spector Ferment by Prof. Tim Spector Good Mood Food (preorder) by Prof. Tim Spector Free resources from ZOE The Smart Snacking Guide: How to feed your gut, fuel your day, and snack without guilt The Hormone Harmony Guide: Tuning Your Body’s Internal Orchestra Eating for Better Brain Health: Your brain-gut blueprint How to eat in 2026 - Discover ZOE’s 8 nutrition principles for long-term health Live Healthier: Top 10 Tips From ZOE Science & Nutrition Gut Guide - For a Healthier Microbiome in Weeks Better Breakfast Guide Mentioned in today's episode Ultra-Processed Diets Cause Excess Calorie Intake and Weight Gain, Cell (2019) Personalized microbiome-driven effects of sweeteners, Cell (2022) Food Emulsifiers and Metabolic Syndrome: The Role of the Gut Microbiota, Foods (2022) NutriNet-Santé Study Eating rate has sustained effects on energy intake from ultraprocessed diets, The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition (2026) The role of hyper-palatable foods in energy intake, Eating Behaviours (2025) ZOE’s PREDICT studies: What we’ve learned Episode transcripts are available here.