Dr Elly Hanson (Video); Porn Is Not About Sex - It’s About Shaping Desire for Profit

This conversation with clinical psychologist Dr Elly Hanson, hosted by Dr Naomi Murphy and David Jones, looks at the commercial and cultural drivers of sexual exploitation, and why regulation matters when profit is shaping sexuality online. It also moves into the emotional cost of doing this work, including burnout, resilience, post-traumatic growth, and how to stay grounded when the subject matter is bleak. Dr Hanson explains the work of CEASE and Fully Human, and makes a case for collective action, stronger safeguards for children, and a clearer language for what it means to be human in a rapidly changing digital world.

https://cease.org.uk/ https://www.hydrantprogramme.co.uk/assets/Hanson-2025-Organised-ritual-abuse-and-its-wider-context.-Hydrant-NPCC-NAPAC.pdf

Key topics

• Dr Elly Hanson’s role and expertise
  • Clinical psychologist
  • Strategy director at CEASE, the Centre to End All Sexual Exploitation
  • Research lead at Fully Human, a PSHE Association initiative
  • Brings both clinical and policy perspectives to the discussion
• What CEASE is trying to change
  • CEASE works upstream to tackle the commercial and cultural drivers of sexual violence and exploitation
  • The focus is prevention, not just response
  • Hanson frames porn as one major commercial driver that shapes harmful sexual scripts
• Pornography as a profit model, not a mirror of sexuality
  • Hanson argues the industry does not simply reflect human sexuality
  • It incentivizes novelty, objectification, taboo, and violence because those are monetizable
  • The point is not just arousal, but the shaping of desire toward corporate profit
• How sexual scripts can shift over time
  • The conversation explores how exposure can normalize more extreme material
  • Naomi Murphy raises the concern that people may move from ordinary preferences into harmful territory
  • Hanson agrees that porn can play a role in that progression, especially where trauma is not the only factor
• Children and young people as a protected group
  • Hanson stresses that children have a right to sexual development free from corporate manipulation
  • She references progress on age verification and stronger protections
  • She argues that society has begun to set a new norm that children should not be exposed to this material
• Working in dark material without becoming numb
  • The discussion turns to the emotional burden of forensic and safeguarding work
  • Hanson rejects the idea that compassion fatigue is just “getting tired of caring”
  • She sees it more as a defensive response to helplessness, under-resourcing, and repeated exposure to harm
• Why collective effort is central to resilience
  • Hanson says burnout is often worst when people feel they cannot make a difference
  • She returns repeatedly to the importance of teamwork, shared purpose, and “finding your people”
  • She says a diverse working week also helps prevent emotional overload
• Sorrow, hope, and philosophical grounding
  • Hanson draws on literature, poetry, and philosophy to make sense of suffering
  • She argues that sorrow is part of the human condition, not the same thing as depression
  • Hope, for her, is an agentic stance: acting without knowing the outcome, rather than optimism or resignation
• Post-traumatic growth and resilience
  • Hanson emphasizes that growth does not erase harm
  • She describes resilience as surviving impact and still moving through it, not simply hardening oneself
  • Her understanding of hope and meaning has deepened through witnessing survivors
• Bureaucracy, neglect, and systems that harm
  • Murphy and Hanson discuss how under-resourced systems can produce cynicism and victim blaming
  • Hanson argues that bureaucracy can become oppressive and even harmful
  • She warns that systems focused only on preventing one kind of abuse can become neglectful in other ways
• Ritual abuse research and the need for acknowledgement
  • Hanson discusses research published with police and NAPAC on ritual abuse
  • She explains that disbelief and dismissal have long harmed survivors
  • The report matters because it acknowledges the issue, summarizes evidence, and challenges the culture of denial
• Fully Human and the question of what it means to be human
  • Fully Human takes a step back from narrow policy issues to ask broader questions about flourishing
  • Its focus includes technology, sexual ethics, objectification, and the impact of digital life on young people
  • Hanson sees this as a place for deeper thought at a time of rapid technological change
• Hope for the next decade
  • Hanson is encouraged by growing recognition that the internet is a human space that needs regulation
  • She sees resistance building against tech libertarianism and “the horse has bolted” thinking
  • She believes society is becoming better at naming what is valuable about human connection, embodiment, and care

Timestamps

00:00 - Welcome and introduction to Dr Elly Hanson 01:01 - What CEASE does and why it works upstream 02:31 - Pornography as a business model that shapes desire 04:46 - “Porn is fundamentally not about sex, but about money” 05:26 - Why age verification and child protection matter 06:22 - How exposure can shift sexual interests and behavior 08:41 - Freud, rules, and what happens when boundaries break 09:43 - What originally drew Hanson into the work 13:30 - How psychologists bear witness to darkness 16:10 - Burnout, helplessness, and staying part of the collective 18:14 - How the work changes your worldview and values 19:40 - Literature, sorrow, and the emotional truth of the work 22:22 - A deeper definition of resilience 23:47 - Compassion fatigue, defensiveness, and victim blaming 26:22 - Bureaucracy, neglect, and harmful systems 28:44 - Post-traumatic growth and an agentic view of hope 31:33 - Hope, compassion, and the power of shared intention 32:57 - Avoiding overwhelm while still staying accountable 34:52 - A self-written poem about building anyway 37:40 - Signs of progress on pornography regulation 41:03 - Ritual abuse, disbelief, and the role of research 44:31 - Advice for people working in disillusioning fields 45:34 - What Fully Human is and why it exists 48:34 - The most promising shifts in regulation and cultural pushback 50:43 - AI, therapy, and becoming better at being human