Tell Your Execs: AI Rankings Are BS (with Rand Fishkin)

You know the zero click problem is real. But how do you get your CEO or CMO on board — and how do you prove it's working once they are? In this episode, I chat with Rand Fishkin to talk measurement frameworks, his new AI visibility research, and why correlation (not causation) is the name of the game.

Guest: Rand Fishkin, Co-founder and CEO of SparkToro

Key takeaway:

Zero Click Marketing is not about giving up on sales or clicks. It’s about accepting that influence often happens before the click — and measuring that influence more honestly.

Timestamps:
00:00 "All the things that happen in a zero click environment will eventually lead to the same thing that clicks led to"
01:13 What do you tell an executive who believes in zero click but doesn't know what to do next?
04:20 How to start thinking about measurement when there's no single dashboard to point to
07:41 The double standard: executives are comfortable with fuzzy measurement for TV and display ads, but demand perfect attribution for content, influencers, and PR
11:02 Where your competitors refuse to invest leaves more room for you
14:07 AI hype as a Trojan horse to convince skeptics: if you believe AI is the future, what's the logical conclusion of AI summarizing content?
17:22 AI as both the cause of and a mental model for zero click
19:14 Rand and Gumshoe's AI visibility research: Rand noticed AI gives different answers to the same prompt every time, which made him skeptical of the entire AI rank-tracking industry
24:12 The big finding: you'd need ~1,000 prompts to get the same ranked answer — rank tracking is unreliable. But brand visibility percentage is real.
29:08 AI visibility as a trackable indicator for zero click marketing success
33:36 Myth busting: zero click marketing ≠ zero sales, and it's not just a Google problem — it's every platform

This episode is brought to you by SparkToro — the audience research tool that helps you find where your audience spends time, what they read, watch, and listen to, and who influences them. Learn more at sparktoro.com. And be sure to check out Gumshoe.ai for search and AI visibility.

Edited by Share Your Genius (shareyourgenius.com)

Learn more about Zero Click Marketing and Amanda Natividad:

Det här avsnittet är hämtat från ett öppet RSS-flöde och publiceras inte av Podme. Det kan innehålla reklam.

Avsnitt(43)

[Replay] Zero Click Marketing — Explained for the Normies!

Hi friend! Are ya new here? Fear not. In this short episode which was inspired by desire to explain my job to my mom, I break down all things zero-click for the non-marketers and non-chronically-onlin...

10 Nov 8min

Why PR Is the New SEO (Thanks to AI) (with Amanda Milligan)

What even is content marketing in the zero-click world? Spoiler: it looks a lot like PR, YouTube, and social media.Amanda Milligan, who leads YouTube strategy at Semrush, joins me to talk about what s...

3 Nov 39min

Books Are the Ultimate Zero Click Marketing Strategy (with Ben Putano)

What makes a book worth reading, remembering, and recommending?Ben Putano, founder and CEO of Damn Gravity (and Rand’s and my publisher!), explains why books might be one of the most powerful marketin...

27 Okt 34min

GEO Is the New CRO (with Ross Hudgens)

I tossed out the idea that “today GEO is CRO,” and it gave Ross Hudgens actual goosebumps, because he’d just written about the same thing. Ross argues that if you can convince a user to buy, you can c...

20 Okt 29min

The Hardest Parts of Zero Click Marketing (Rand Fishkin returns!)

Rand Fishkin (my co-author!) is back on the show for a special episode about our new book, Zero Click Marketing.We talk about what surprised us while recording the audiobook, and some of the Zero Cli...

13 Okt 39min

The Marketing Skills AI Can’t Give You (with Sarah Stockdale)

Marketing keeps changing. But good marketing? Not so much.Sarah Stockdale, founder and CEO of Growclass, joins me to talk about what still matters as algorithms, AI, attribution, and the platforms cha...

6 Okt 27min

How Referral Rock Turns Customer Intel Into a Marketing Strategy (with Josh Ho)

Josh Ho, founder and CEO of ReferralRock, and I chit chat about marketing challenges and opportunities as of late. My fave part of this episode is when Josh explains how ReferralRock turns its existin...

29 Sep 39min

Why You're Losing to AI and How to Fix It (with Wil Reynolds)

Wil Reynolds joins me to chop it up over what AI is changing — and what it’s revealing — about marketing, expertise, and trust. We talk about using AI without losing your voice, why accountability may...

22 Sep 52min