Platformer’s Casey Newton on surviving the great media collapse and what comes next

Today, I’m talking with Airbnb CEO Brian Chesky. This is Brian’s fourth time on the show, and he’s one of my favorite guests because he’s so clearly obsessed with things like company structure, design, and decision making. You know, Decoder stuff. This time, Brian came on to talk about the company’s new services product and the full-scale redesign and rebuild of the Airbnb app to support these broader ambitions. There’s a lot of fun, very Decoder-y stuff in this one. Read the full transcript here on The Verge.   Links:  Airbnb’s new app has all of your vacation extras in one place | Verge “Flat design is over” | Brian Chesky Airbnb Is in midlife crisis mode | Wired He revolutionized travel. Can Airbnb’s founder redesign your entire life? | WSJ Airbnb’s CEO explains how he helped Sam Altman during OpenAI fiasco | Fast Company A conversation with Airbnb’s Brian Chesky | Figma Jony Ive is bringing his design talents to Airbnb | Verge Airbnb CEO Brian Chesky on what founder mode really means | Decoder Airbnb CEO Brian Chesky is taking it back to basics | Decoder Why the future of work is the future of travel, with Airbnb CEO Brian Chesky | Decoder Help us plan for the future of Decoder by filling out this brief survey. Thank you! Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

2 Juni 1h 13min

Today, I’m talking with journalist Megan Greenwell about her new book Bad Company: Private Equity and the Death of the American Dream. It comes out June 10th. It's fantastic and maddening in equal measure. I highly recommend it. In this episode, we discussed the genesis of Megan’s interest in the subject and its genesis in media — including her time as editor-in-chief of the website Deadspin, which underwent a very public PE takeover of its parent company. We also talk a lot about the healthcare industry, another major pillar of Megan’s book. I'm excited to hear what you think of this one. Links:  Bad Company | HarperCollins Private equity bought out your doctor and bankrupted Toys ‘R’ Us | Decoder Private equity Is gutting America — and getting away with it | NYT I was fired from Deadspin for refusing to ‘stick to sports’ | NYT Will private equity be the next ‘Big Short’? | Marketplace The profit-obsessed monster destroying American ERs | Vox Why your vet bill is so high | The Atlantic The investment firms leave behind a barren wasteland’ | Politico Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinde Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

29 Maj 49min

In what's become a bit of a Decoder tradition, I spoke with Google CEO Sundar Pichai in person after I/O. The conference this year was all about AI, particularly a slew of actual AI products, not just models and capabilities. To Sundar, this marks the beginning of a new era for search and the web overall. So I had to ask: what happens to the web when AI tools and eventually agents do most of the browsing for us? It was a very Decoder conversation. Read the full transcript here. Links:  Help us plan the future of Decoder! | AUDIENCE SURVEY The 15 biggest announcements at Google I/O 2025 | Verge We tried on Google’s prototype AI smart glasses | Verge AI Mode is obviously the future of Google Search | Verge News publishers call Google’s AI Mode ‘theft’ | Verge Details leak about Jony Ive’s OpenAI device | Verge DOJ says Google must sell Chrome to crack open monopoly | Verge Google Zero is here — now what? | Verge Uber CEO Dara Khosrowshahi is okay reinventing the bus | Decoder Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

27 Maj 46min

Today, I’m talking with Uber CEO Dara Khosrowshahi. We recorded this conversation on the same day Uber announced a big set of product updates, including new options for shared rides. Dara was in New York for all that, so he came to our studio and we did this one together, which always makes for a great episode.  If you’ve been listening to Decoder recently, you know that I’m very curious about how service apps like Uber will handle things like AI agents. Dara had a lot of thoughts there. There’s a lot in this one, and Dara didn’t hold back. I think you’re going to like it. Links:  Uber’s new bus-like feature is nearly 50 percent cheaper than UberX | Verge An interview with Dara Khosrowshahi | Stratechery Uber preps for Waymo’s robotaxi launch in Atlanta | Verge Uber ends year in the black for the first time ever | Verge Uber’s not out of the woods yet | Verge UberX Share brings carpooling back to NYC and eight other cities | Verge Uber CEO vows to be ‘hardcore’ about costs, slow hiring | Verge Transcript Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

22 Maj 1h 3min

Today, I’m talking with Kevin Scott, the chief technology officer of Microsoft, and one of the company’s AI leaders. Kevin is one of my favorite repeat Decoder guests, and he joined the show this time to talk about the future of search.  Microsoft just announced an open-source tool for websites to integrate AI powered natural language search with just a little bit of effort, in a way that lets them actually run whatever models they want and keep control of their data. I saw some demos before Kevin and I chatted, and the improvements over the bad local search on most sites was obvious. So we talked about what this will mean for AI, for search engines, and for the future of the web.  Links:  Microsoft’s plan to fix the web: letting every website run AI search for cheap | Verge Microsoft Build 2025: news and announcements from the developer conference | Verge Introducing the Model Context Protocol | Anthropic Copyright Office head fired after reporting AI training isn’t always fair use | Ars Technica Microsoft CTO Kevin Scott on how AI and art will coexist in the future | Decoder Microsoft CTO Kevin Scott thinks Sydney might make a comeback | Decoder Microsoft’s CTO explains how AI can help health care in the US right now | Vergecast Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/669409 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Xander Adams.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

19 Maj 1h 10min

Today, I’m talking with Gerrit Kazmaier, the brand-new president of product and technology at Workday. Gerrit’s new on the job, maybe a little bit braver than most, and to his credit he came on the show and took the heat. We spent a lot of time talking about what enterprise software really is, what it does and why it has a reputation of being so deeply frustrating for so many people.  Links:  Workday names Gerrit Kazmaier president of product and technology | Workday AI Index Report | Stanford HAI IBM AI Study | IBM How generative AI will impact the future of work | Workday Workday launches platform for companies to manage all of their AI agents | TechCrunch Everyone hates Workday | Business Insider Judge: Workday must face novel AI bias lawsuit | Reuters Workday lays off 1,750, 8.5% of employees, in AI push | Associated Press Why Workday's CEO made a layoff decision to invest in AI | FastCompany Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/667538 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

15 Maj 1h 13min

We’re doing something a little different today — I asked my friend John Gruber of Daring Fireball to come on the show and talk about the future of Apple, and, importantly, the App Store. I wanted to talk about the most recent ruling in the Epic v. Apple legal saga. But I also wanted to talk about the big picture at Apple, and why the company seems to have found itself being hammered on all sides: by the developers that feel it’s become too greedy, by federal court judges that no longer trust it, and by regulators now threatening some of its major cash cows.  Links:  Judge rules, in excoriating decision, that Apple violated 2021 order | Daring Fireball Steve Jobs’ response on Section 3.3.1 | Tao Effect Blog Epic submitted Fortnite to Apple | Verge Eddy Cue is fighting to save Apple’s $20 billion paycheck from Google | Verge Epic is offering developers an alternative to Apple’s in-app purchases | Verge Epic says Fortnite is coming back to iOS in the US | Verge Apple files appeal to wrest back control of its App Store | Verge ‘Cook chose poorly’: how Apple blew up its control over the App Store | Verge Apple changes App Store rules to allow external purchases | Verge Existential thoughts about Apple’s reliance on Services revenue | Six Colors Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

12 Maj 1h 19min

Today, I’m talking with Paul Bascobert, who is the president of Reuters, as part of a special Thursday series we’re running this month to explore how leaders at some world’s biggest companies make decisions in such a rapidly changing environment. Reuters is a great company for us to kick off with, because it’s been around since 1851, when the hot technology enabling mass media was the telegraph.  Here, today, in 2025, the tech driving media has clearly changed more than a little bit. Distribution in a world full of iPhones and generative AI is a really different proposition than distributing media 50 years before the invention of the radio. So there’s a lot here, and you’ll hear Paul and I get deep into basically every Decoder theme there is. Links:  The Trust Principles | Reuters Brendan Carr’s FCC is an anti-consumer, rights-trampling harassment machine | Verge AP wins reinstatement to White House events | AP  NYT publisher AG Sulzberger on Trump, OpenAI and the economy | Channels Dow Jones CEO Almar Latour on AI, press freedom, and the future of news | Decoder Platforms need the news — but they’re killing it | Decoder Why The Atlantic signed a deal with OpenAI | Decoder Platformer’s Casey Newton on surviving the great media collapse | Decoder Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

8 Maj 1h 6min