Bonus Sample: How to Stamp Out Racists (and more)

In this episode of the Swan Song Series, Matthew interviews Paola Marino about why she found Teal Swan a fascinating subject to film for 2018’s “Open Shadow.” They discuss aesthetics, the mystery of personality, why Swan’s parents agreed to sit down with her. Matthew also surprised her with the newly-revealed translations of Swan’s coded journal pages.Prefacing the interview is a discussion between Julian and Matthew about art, artifice, the risks of doing and not doing hard journalism on the subjects we cover. They discuss James Joyce’s proverb about  noble art, in which he describes “aesthetic arrest” as the middle way between propaganda and pornography. Marino’s work attempts to find that path, while Jon Kasbe’s The Deep End falters to both sides. On one hand Kasbe’s film titillates viewers with high drama. On the other hand it tells viewers what they should think. And in both cases it creates a story where the truth would suffice. The feelings excited by improper art are kinetic, desire or loathing. Desire urges us to possess, to go to something; loathing urges us to abandon, to go from something. These are kinetic emotions. The arts which excite them, pornographical or didactic, are therefore improper arts. The esthetic emotion (I use the general term) is therefore static. The mind is arrested and raised above desire and loathing. — James Joyce, Portrait of the Artist as a Young ManShow NotesOpen Shadow—Paola MarinoGizmodo Launches 'The Gateway,' an Investigative Podcast About a Controversial Internet Spiritual Guru -- -- --Support us on PatreonPre-order Conspirituality: How New Age Conspiracy Theories Became a Health Threat: America | Canada Follow us on Instagram | Twitter: Derek | Matthew | JulianOriginal music by EarthRise SoundSystem Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

18 Juli 20224min

This podcast was born in response to COVID and vaccine disinformation that, while bubbling up for some time, flooded the population with the release of the pseudodocumentary, “Plandemic.” Ever since then, we’ve wondered how to combat the constant tides of pseudoscience masquerading as “natural remedies” that conspiritualists champion, then sell for a profit. One of our earliest champions was the Southern California-based cardiologist, Danielle Belardo, who built up a large social media following even before the pandemic ravaged the world. Not only was she on the actual frontlines of COVID wards, but she’s been leading the charge on providing evidence-based information on her social media feeds, as well as her excellent podcast, Wellness: Fact Vs Fiction.Derek was recently a guest on that podcast, and now Danielle returns the favor, joining him to discuss her thoughts on being a science communicator and a female cardiologist in a male-dominated field, as well as many of the wellness myths circling around social media, including supplements, statins, sunscreen, veganism, organic foods, and GMOs.  -- -- --Support us on PatreonPre-order Conspirituality: How New Age Conspiracy Theories Became a Health Threat: America | Canada Follow us on Instagram | Twitter: Derek | Matthew | JulianOriginal music by EarthRise SoundSystem Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

14 Juli 20221h 37min

Derek steps back from conspiracies and wellness this week to discuss something very healing and personal to him: music. Specifically, how music has shaped his career, as well as the story behind the music you hear every week on this podcast. Show NotesEarthRise SoundSystem on SpotifyEarthrise SoundSystem vs Nina Simone: Come YeBole 2 HarlemPete KuzmaGlobal Beat Fusion: The History of the Future of Music -- -- --Support us on PatreonPre-order Conspirituality: How New Age Conspiracy Theories Became a Health Threat: America | Canada Follow us on Instagram | Twitter: Derek | Matthew | JulianOriginal music by EarthRise SoundSystem Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

11 Juli 20229min

Our guest today, Jennings Brown, is a bright light in an increasingly chaotic cult-content economy. His 2018 podcast on Teal Swan, The Gateway, produced with Gizmodo, sets a high-watermark standard for research, fairness, and sensitivity. A lot has happened since that pod dropped: #MeToo, MAGA, QAnon, COVID, and now a post-reality Supreme Court in which Justice Thomas publishes a concurrence in which he states that COVID vaccines use the tissues of aborted fetuses. All of which is to say: we don’t know how intensely the insanity of the era will escalate, but we do know that clear, ethical reporting on difficult issues is a very thin lifeline back to sanity, communication, and trying to do something.If you listened to episode 109 (if you haven’t we encourage you to stop here and go there), you’ll hear our criticisms of The Deep End docuseries about Teal Swan. You’ll hear us interview the director, Jon Kasbe. We lean on him, maybe too gently, on the numerous integrity issues with his film. Bottom line: with deceptive edits and a vacuum of expert commentary and research, we feel that this project is a real setback for everyone trying to understand cultic dynamics in the online age. And as we’ll report at the top of the show, before our interview with Brown, the story of this embedment is only getting messier.Our interview with Jennings steers clear of the muck, because what we really wanted to hear was all about his process, his editorial decisions, and the help he got from his producers. We were also very lucky to have him drop some previously unreported data into the mix. Spoiler alert: it’s about the types of things that Swan used to write in her secret runic alien language.Show NotesJennings Brown — About page with tip line contact infoEpisode 109: Who's Afraid of Teal Swan? w/ Jon KasbeJon Kasbe wishing Teal Swan happy birthdayBits Sola rapping Teal Swan happy birthdayGizmodo Launches 'The Gateway,' an Investigative Podcast About a Controversial Internet Spiritual GuruOpen Shadow — Paola MarinoPaola Marino on The Deep End (clip)Jennings Brown — Revelations -- -- --Support us on PatreonPre-order Conspirituality: How New Age Conspiracy Theories Became a Health Threat: America | Canada Follow us on Instagram | Twitter: Derek | Matthew | JulianOriginal music by EarthRise SoundSystem Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

7 Juli 20221h 50min

We can't understand Teal Swan without understanding the Satanic Panic. And we can't really understand that historical disaster with out feeling our way into the mysteries of memory, fantasy, shame, and terror.Many of you will have heard about therapists interfering in a family constellation by insinuating the client has has memories of abuse to uncover, and that they can’t go forward in their lives without doing that work. This is the bread and butter of Swan's technique, with the result being that many of her close followers come to tell stories  about their childhoods that echo hers. Swan's own story of childhood abuse crystallized after she goes through treatment with a leading Satanic Panic therapist, Barbara Snow. Those are stories on the page. But today, to kick off the Swan Song Series, Julian shares  the moment-by-moment mechanics of how this disastrous parody of therapy turned his own life inside out, and alienated him from his family for a decade.Content warning for listeners: we’ll be talking about stories of child sexual abuse.Show NotesThe Gateway Michelle Remembers, covered by Sarah Marshall and Michael Hobbes Forrest Yoga students ask A. Forrest to stop using the Zia Nation symbol A. Forrest's ostensible mentor  -- -- --Support us on PatreonPre-order Conspirituality: How New Age Conspiracy Theories Became a Health Threat: America | Canada Follow us on Instagram | Twitter: Derek | Matthew | JulianOriginal music by EarthRise SoundSystem Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

4 Juli 20229min

Rosaries made of shell casings. A breakaway Unification Church sect that holds rituals with gilded ARs. JP Sears on the gun range. The unholy American trinity of conservative politics, religious extremism, and gun culture is deep into its liturgical calendar. And it looks like conspiritualist influencers in the yoga and wellness space are setting up their juice bars outside the temple of the gun. Is Christiane Northrup LARPing when she talks about murdering political enemies? What would Mikki Willis wear to tactical boot camp? Amidst the carnage of Uvalde and the Supreme Court, are conspiritualists gearing up to offer logistical or merely symbolic support for political violence? Does it even make a difference? When does the Temple of the Gun become a firing range, and then a staging ground? We’ll cover these questions this week in part one of our look at guns and spirituality. Then in three weeks, Julian will talk to sociologist of religion Alan Levinovitz about how New Age spirituality and US gun culture shake hands through an “epistemology of individual empowerment,” which, he argues, has emerged amidst a crash in social solidarity.Show NotesNew York Times report on Guns in GOP AdsHow Many Lives Were Saved by The Assault Weapons Ban?Christian Nationalists and the Holy Gun CrusadeRod Of Iron Ministries Buys “Spiritual Retreat” Property in Tennessee -- -- --Support us on PatreonPre-order Conspirituality: How New Age Conspiracy Theories Became a Health Threat: America | Canada Follow us on Instagram | Twitter: Derek | Matthew | JulianOriginal music by EarthRise SoundSystem Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

1 Juli 20221h 26min

Matthew introduces Julian to the solipsism of an old Catholic catechism. Julian remembers meditating on non-duality. What spaces in our brains do these exercises create? Did we need those spaces for safety, or to hide from ourselves and the world? What happens to these spaces when we no longer need them? If we learned how to take pleasure in “cognitive closure” through religion or spirituality, can we use that skill forever, but detached from the ideologies that want to steal that fire? -- -- --Support us on PatreonPre-order Conspirituality: How New Age Conspiracy Theories Became a Health Threat: America | Canada Follow us on Instagram | Twitter: Derek | Matthew | JulianOriginal music by EarthRise SoundSystem Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

27 Juni 20229min

If the world has become too much to bear—and the bots know it from your search history— you will likely find Teal Swan. She will appear, an angel of the algorithms, part icon and part anime avenger. Against a backdrop of flowing water or turning constellations, she will gaze into your despair. She will speak in a drone at once hypnotic and relieving, giving words to feelings you thought were taboo. At 3am, this might feel like mystical luck, but it’s no accident. Swan is open about recruiting suicidal seekers to her content, and she has the tech chops to do it.Now, with Jon Kasbe’s series, “The Deep End” airing on Hulu, Swan has entered some A-list limelight. But what do we really learn from this docutainment event, radiating out from an embedment in Swan’s inner circle? According to Kasbe’s own words, we don’t learn the “Capital T Truth” of Swan’s day-to-day, but rather the immersive feeling of what it is like to be under her spell. Or do we? Swan accuses Kasbe of casting his own spell, with deceptive editing that scrambles timelines and conflates interactions, and even different people. And it appears she might not be wrong. We talk to Kasbe in this episode about his vision and blindspots, and the ironic risk of creating a film of Satanic-Panic level false memories about an influencer who says she specializes in retrieving past trauma. This episode will pilot a series of Patreon bonus episodes in which we’ll study the Teal Swan spectacle in detail, and how important it is to not only report on it well, but to be fair to an influencer like Swan and her dedicated followers, lest they lose even more trust in the real  world.CORRECTION: Matthew referred to Jennings Brown's role on The Deep End production incorrectly during the episode. His title is "Development Executive Producer."Show NotesThe Deep EndThe Gateway Podcast Teal Swan 2014 interview on her backstory.Teal Swan: Gucci Guru article by Be ScofieldBarbara Snow’s seminal Satanic Panic article: Ritualistic Child Abuse In A Neighborhood SettingRecovered Memory Therapist Placed on ProbationMichelle Remembers & The Satanic PanicTeal’s Responses to The Deep End Start HERETeal Swan Defense :Testimonial Deep End Defamation—Sylvan -- -- --Support us on PatreonPre-order Conspirituality: How New Age Conspiracy Theories Became a Health Threat: America | Canada Follow us on Instagram | Twitter: Derek | Matthew | JulianOriginal music by EarthRise SoundSystem Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

23 Juni 20222h 4min