Maia Szalavitz: A New Lens on Addiction

Maia Szalavitz: A New Lens on Addiction

Maia Szalavitz is an American reporter and author who has focused much of her work on the topic of addiction. In this paradigm-shifting interview, she explains what she means by claiming that addiction is a learning disorder, a developmental disorder. It's a different way of thinking of addiction than it being a disease or a moral failing. As a result, it has different implications for how it should then be treated. Some of what Maia has to say is polarising and some will immediately make intuitive sense and you'll ask yourself why you haven't thought that way before. Take a listen to what she has to say and let us know what you think.

Maia Szalavitz is one of the premier American journalists covering addiction and drugs. She is co-author of Born for Love and The Boy Who Was Raised as a Dog, both with Dr. Bruce D. Perry. Her book, Help at Any Cost is the first book-length exposé of the “tough love” business that dominates addiction treatment. She writes for TIME.com, VICE, the New York Times, Scientific American Mind, Elle, Psychology Today and Marie Claire among others.

Her latest book is Unbroken Brain: A Revolutionary New Way of Understanding Addiction


In This Interview, Maia Szalavitz and I Discuss...

  • The Wolf Parable
  • Her book, Unbroken Brain: Why Addiction is a Learning Disorder and Why it Matters
  • That your brain becomes what it does - that the more you repeat an activity, the easier it becomes
  • How addiction is a developmental disorder
  • That learning is critical to addiction
  • The problems with discussion about addiction as a disease
  • Arguing that addiction is a disease and then treating it like a moral failing
  • How addiction resets your priorities and therefore you'll make very different decisions
  • Addiction = compulsive behavior that continues despite negative consequences
  • How illogical it is then to try and address addiction by focusing on implementing additional negative consequences
  • The complexity of addiction, genes + culture + timing
  • The developmental history that gets you to addiction
  • How the drug isn't the problem and our efforts to simply get rid of it isn't a helpful solution
  • Addiction as a learning disorder that is characterized by a resistance to punishment
  • The problem with "rock bottom" is that it can only be identified retrospectively, it's not helpful scientifically, and it implies a moral component of having to reach a point of extreme degradation before you can stop
  • What the motivation is that turns people to recovery
  • How addicts keep using because they can't see how they can survive any other way and recovery begins when you start to see that there are other options
  • That people with addiction are living at a point of learned helplessness, so the role of hope and other ways of managing their life is critical to recovery and it can start before they quit their drug(s) of choice
  • Addiction as a coping mechanism
  • The pleasures of the hunt vs the pleasures of the feast
  • Wanting vs Liking
  • Different motivational states
  • Addiction as escalating wanting
  • Stimulants and an escalating cycle of never being satisfied and chasing that satisfaction
  • 12 Step Programs: are they effective? are they useful?
  • The role of medicine in a developmental disorder
  • Looking at addicts as students who need to learn better coping skills rather than sinners who need to be forced to repent
  • That people who are addicted are PEOPLE and we need to treat them that way



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Christine Hassler

Christine Hassler

Christine Hassler left her successful job as a Hollywood agent at 25 to pursue a life she could be passionate about . . . but it did not come easily. After being inspired by her own unexpected challenges and experiences, she realized her journey was indeed her destination. In 2005, she wrote the first guidebook written exclusively for young women, entitled 20 Something 20 Everything. Christine’s second book, The 20 Something Manifesto written for men and women stems from her experience coaching twenty-something’s.  Her newest book Expectation%20Hangover: Overcoming Disappointment in Work, Love, and LifeExpectation Hangover: Overcoming Disappointment in Work, Love and Life is the guidebook for how to treat disappointment on the emotional, mental, behavioral and spiritual levels. In This Interview Christine and I Discuss...The One You Feed parable.Her favorite books and authors.How we don’t have control but we do have choice.What an expectation hangover is.The three things that cause expectation hangovers.The three types of expectation hangovers.The ways we try and cope with expectation hangovers that don’t work.Learning to feel our emotions instead of trying to talk ourselves out of it.The spiritual bypass.That an untreated expectation hangover can lead to addiction.Our overwhelming fear of emotions.How unexpressed emotions can lead to other problems.Suppression = depression.Pendulum thinking.How we tend to think our emotions instead of feeling them.The difference between releasing and recycling feelings.One of our favorite books-Pema Chodron- When Things Fall Apart.Not indulging or repressing emotions.The stories we tell ourselves about our emotions.How the desire of our ego and the direction of our soul are often headed in different direction.The four components of the Expectation Hangover treatment plan.Role Playing Rx.Her 21 years on anti-depressants.Dealing with depression.Feeling lonely in a group of people.Form versus essence.Thinking about how we want to feel.How looking for things to make us happy is a losing strategy.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

8 Okt 201450min

Mini Episode 9- Envy and Comparision

Mini Episode 9- Envy and Comparision

This week Eric discusses Envy and ComparisonIn Dante's Inferno the envious had their eyes sewn shut. In our day we have a lot of social media comparison.We discuss some approaches to handling envy and comparison Some of our most popular interviews that you might also enjoy:Kino MacGregorStrand of OaksMike Scott of the WaterboysTodd Henry- author of Die EmptyRandy Scott HydeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

6 Okt 20146min

Emiliya Zhivotovskaya

Emiliya Zhivotovskaya

I was lucky enough to catch Emiliya Zhivotovskaya near the end of Camp GLP and we were able to sit down in her small room on the floor, holding microphones and have this conversation. I think we were both very tired after a great weekend at camp. She had delivered numerous workshops, emceed the Talent Show and was feeling under the weather to boot. Nonetheless it was a wonderful and warm conversation. Enjoy!!At the age of 5, Emiliya and her family fled from Kiev, escaping the fall of Communism and the nuclear disaster at Chernobyl. She found herself in a new land, faced with challenges completely foreign to the average kid growing up in a New York suburb. Then, 9 years later, she faced yet another tragedy, the sudden loss of her brother as he ran to save his fiancé from drowning and lost his life in the process of saving hers. And years later, the loss of her mother.From this place of deep challenge, she could have turned to the dark side. She could have given up, blamed the world and walked away from joy. From happiness. From possibility. Instead, she found awakening, strength and a renewed sense of gratitude. She discovered within herself a wellspring of resilience and a relentless desire to understand where this came from and how to bring a similar lens to others. She was determined to help others flourish.Her exploration quickly developed into a lifelong quest, leading her to study psychology at Long Island University, then get her masters degree in applied positive psychology from the University of Pennsylvania under the guidance of the legendary founder of the science, professor Martin Seligman. Graduating summa cum laude, she has gone on to found the Certification in Positive Psychology program at the Open Center and head up her own endeavor, The Flourishing Center. Emiliya is also currently pursuing her Ph.D. in Mind-Body Medicine at Saybrook University, where she is also on the graduate faculty. (Curriculum Vitae)Emiliya Zhivotovskaya is widely acclaimed for her striking ability to share the transformative power of positive psychology, deliver actionable and specific strategies that yield tangible, measurable results. And share these ideas in a wonderfully engaging and entertaining way. In This Interview Emiliya and I Discuss...The One You Feed parable.How both wolves are part of the human condition.How to feed both wolves and integrate them.Courage is not a lack of fear but having the ability to move through it.The bad wolf is trying to protect us, it is part of our evolutionary programming.What is positive psychology?How both positive and negative emotions are useful.The role of positive psychology in handling depression and anxiety.Depression masquerading as loneliness.Why there are not more depression support groups.Depression as learned helplessness.The criticality of exercise in handling depression (Want to be depressed? Don't exercise!)The BDNF and Serotonin loop.Taking micro-steps to build new habits.The biological wiring of social comparison.The role of gratitude in feeling better.How gratitude shifts the brain into a more expansive state.The small tweak that makes gratitude much more powerful.How negative emotion and problem solving are not connected, they can be pulled apart.That negative emotions make problem solving worse and narrows our ability to see options.How positive emotions help us move into broaden and build mode.That pain as a motivator falls prey to the law of diminishing returns.Eustress-the role of useful stress.The difference between useful and destructive stress.Thinking about being happier but not taking any action is worse than not thinking about it all.The fixed vs growth mindset.How you can't enjoy the journey when stuck in the fixed mindset and the growth mindset creates the conditions to enjoy the journey. Emiliya Zhivotovskaya LinksEmiliya Zhivotovskaya HomepageEmiliya Zhivotovskaya FacebookEmiliya Zhivotovskaya TwitterCertificate in Positive Psychology created by Emiliya Zhivotovskaya Some of our most popular interviews that you might also enjoy:Kino MacGregorStrand of OaksMike Scott of the WaterboysTodd Henry- author of Die EmptyRandy Scott HydeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

30 Sep 201438min

Mini Ep 8- The Role of Willpower and Anger in Depression

Mini Ep 8- The Role of Willpower and Anger in Depression

This week Eric responds to a follow on Twitter.I posted a tweet the other day that said:"The best way out of depression is to hate it and not let yourself get used to it"I got this response from a follower:"NOT TRUE - you cannot will yourself out of incorrect wiring in the brain. Watch the platitudes!"In this episode I discuss the role of anger, will and resolve in dealing with depression.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

27 Sep 20145min

Jonathan Rottenberg: Depression and Evolution

Jonathan Rottenberg: Depression and Evolution

This week we talk to Jonathan Rottenberg Jonathan Rottenberg is a leading researcher in the area of emotion and psychopathology, where he has focused on major depression. He is author of the  book, The Depths: The Evolutionary Origins of the Depression Epidemic. The book is a new look at depression. Depression is discussed as an evolutionary adaptation that has gone wrong in our current culture. Depression is not thought of as a deficiency, or a lack of something. Instead he looks at depression through the lens of mood. He edited Emotion and Psychopathology: Bridging Affective and Clinical Science, published by the American Psychological Association. Since receiving his PhD degree from Stanford University, he has been at the University of South Florida, where he is an Associate Professor of Psychology and Director of the Mood and Emotion Laboratory. His work has been generously funded by the National Institutes of Mental Health and he has authored over 35 scientific publications, including many in the top journals in psychology and psychiatry. His work has received national and international media coverage, reported in outlets such as Science News, Scientific American, and the The New York Times.  In This Interview Jonathan and I Discuss... The One You Feed parable. Depression as an evolutionary adaptation. Mood theory versus the defect theory of depression. That in our society incidence of depression is growing. The evidence for an evolutionary view of depression. How the purpose of depression is to help us disengage from activities that are not fruitful. How the defect theory of depression has no way to account for the growth of depression. How key human tendencies such as language and goal setting can exacerbate depression. The human tendency to make meaning out of everything and the role this can play in depression. The role of rumination in depression. Persistence of low mood is a key indicator in long term depression. His personal battle with depression. The three things that seed low mood: Events, Temperaments and Routines. The emotional set point theory. How living in a culture so obsessed with happiness is partially responsible for the epidemic of depression. Social media and the role it plays in depression. The inability to tolerate a little bit of depression can create a crisis where someone comes to question the whole path of their life. The goal of evolution is survival, not happinesss. Using medicine for depression as a step on the path. Having higher standards for depression sufferers. Using depression as a bridge to a better life. Three useful approaches to depression: meditation, cognitive therapy and acceptance. How these approaches all turn down the volume on the meaning making machine. Emotional context insensitivity. Depressed people react less to negative stimulus than non-depressed people. Anger can be a useful tool in getting out of depression. Depression can be caused by over attachment to goals, not under attachment. Jonathan Rottenberg Links Jonathan Rottenberg Home Page Buy The Depths on Amazon Came Out of the Dark Campaign Jonathan Rotttenberg on Twitter Jonathan Rottenberg on Facebook    Some of our most popular interviews that you might also enjoy: Kino MacGregor Strand of Oaks Mike Scott of the Waterboys Todd Henry- author of Die Empty Randy Scott HydeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

23 Sep 201441min

Chris Grosso - The Indie Spiritualist

Chris Grosso - The Indie Spiritualist

This week we talk to Chris GrossoChris Grosso is an author, independent culturist, spiritual aspirant, recovering addict, speaker, and professor with en*theos Academy. He writes for Origin magazine, Mantra Yoga + Health magazine and created the popular hub for all things alternative, independent, and spiritual with TheIndieSpiritualist.com. Chris continues the exploration with his debut book titled The Indie Spiritualist.  In This Interview Chris and I Discuss...The One You Feed parable.How asking is the best way to get a yes.Having Danny Trejo pointing a steak knife at him. What the word spiritual means.Don't believe things on faith, try them out for yourself.Eddie Van Halen solo and Chris's mystical experience.How spiritual experience can happen anywhere, it does not have to be a "sacred" place.Chris Forbes and his love of Air Supply.No mud, no lotus.Becoming great because of our pain.Hiding from pain with drugs and alcohol.How his parents were his first teacher of compassion.Johnny Cash, punk rock, and hard-core music.Chris Grosso LinksThe Indie SpiritualistChris Grosso on TwitterChris Grosso on FacebookBuy The Indie Spiritualist Book  Some of our most popular interviews that you might also enjoy:Kino MacGregorStrand of OaksMike Scott of the WaterboysTodd Henry- author of Die EmptyRandy Scott HydeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

16 Sep 201436min

Mini Episode 7- Positive Concentration

Mini Episode 7- Positive Concentration

This week Eric discusses positive concentration techniques to counteract rumination.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

13 Sep 20144min

Chris Guillebeau

Chris Guillebeau

[powerpress]  This week we talk to Chris GuillebeauChris Guillebeau is a New York Times bestselling author and modern-day explorer.During a lifetime of self-employment that included a four-year commitment as a volunteer executive in West Africa, he visited every country in the world (193 in total) before his 35th birthday. Since then he has modeled the proven definition of an entrepreneur: “Someone who will work 24 hours a day for themselves to avoid working one hour a day for someone else.”Chris’s first book, The Art of Non-Conformity, was translated into more than twenty languages. His second book, The $100 Startup, was a New York Times and Wall Street Journal bestseller, selling more than 300,000 copies worldwide. His latest book, The Happiness of Pursuit, was just released today.Every summer in Portland, Oregon, Chris hosts the World Domination Summit, a gathering of creative, remarkable people with thousands in attendance. Chris is also the founder of Pioneer Nation, Unconventional Guides, the Travel Hacking Cartel, and numerous other projects. In This Interview Chris and I Discuss...The One You Feed parable.What is a quest?Finding adventure and purpose.How a quest add meaning to our lives.How effort can be it's own reward.How an emotional awareness of our mortality can be motivating.Developing a sense of urgency and opportunity.How misadventure builds confidence. The difference between a hobby, a passion and a quest. How depressed people tend to have more generalized goals.How quests don't always wrap up cleanly.Creating meaning in our lives.Eric's free ticket to World Domination Summit.Chris Guillebeau LinksChris Guillebeau HomepageWorld Domination SummitChris Guillebeau on TwitterChris Guillebeau Amazon Author PageThe Happiness of PursuitThe $100 StartupThe Art of Non-Conformity Some of our most popular interviews that you might also enjoy:Kino MacGregorStrand of OaksMike Scott of the WaterboysTodd Henry- author of Die EmptyRandy Scott HydeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

10 Sep 201430min

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