Prozac and ChatGPT: How Technology is Changing the Way We See Ourselves - Ep. 15 with Peter D. Kramer

Antidepressants changed my life.

I have OCD and antidepressants did what nearly a decade of therapy, meditation, and supplements couldn’t: they allowed me to live my life without being in a 24/7 spiral. (Bonus: they actually made therapy and meditation far more helpful once they started to work.)

I think antidepressants are seriously misunderstood. Yes, they blunt negative emotions. But they also operate on personality and sense of self: they can make you bolder, less sensitive to failure, and less risk-averse.

In short: they are a technology that changes how we see ourselves and the world.

That’s why I invited Dr. Peter D. Kramer on my show. Dr. Kramer is a psychiatrist and the author of eight books, including Listening to Prozac, which is an international bestseller. He has practiced psychiatry and taught psychotherapy at Brown University for nearly four decades.

Listening To Prozac is one of my favorite books, and it documents Dr. Kramer’s experiences as a psychiatrist seeing how antidepressants like Prozac changed his patients’ sense of self and personality.

Now, you might be wondering why have him on a show about ChatGPT? Well, technology can change who we are even if it comes as a software product rather than a pill. It’s undoubtedly true that as generations of humans learn to live with AI, it will change what it means to be human—and how we see ourselves and the world. I think that can be a good thing, but it could also be scary.

I wanted to talk to Dr. Kramer about his book, and see if we could apply some of his insights in Prozac to ChatGPT. It was an incredible conversation, and I was honored to talk to him.

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To learn more about the topics in this episode:

• Listening to Prozac by Peter D. Kramer
• ChatGPT and the Future of the Human Mind by Dan Shipper
• SSRIs by Scott Alexander

Timestamps:

1. Introduction: 00:50
2. How technology changes the way we see ourselves and the world: 08:24
3. Antidepressants and their impact on our personality and sense of self: 21:25
4. How the availability of a technological solution prompts us to see the problem everywhere: 26:35
5. Technology alters the categories we have divided the world into: 34:06
6. How I use ChatGPT in my writing process: 40:05
7. Experimenting with ChatGPT to get relationship advice: 45:41
8. Prompting ChatGPT to be more specific: 51:16
9. Clearly indicate the tone you want ChatGPT to take: 55:11
10. Dr. Peter D. Kramer’s final thoughts on ChatGPT as a therapist: 1:02:27

Links to resources mentioned in the episode:

• Dr. Peter D. Kramer: https://twitter.com/PeterDKramer
• ChatGPT and the Future of the Human Mind by Dan Shipper: https://every.to/chain-of-thought/chatgpt-and-the-future-of-the-human-mind
• Listening to Prozac by Dr. Kramer: https://www.amazon.com/Listening-Prozac-Landmark-Antidepressants-Remaking/dp/0140266712
• Should You Leave? by Dr. Kramer: https://www.amazon.com/Should-You-Leave-Psychiatrist-Autonomy/dp/0140272798
• Against Depression by Dr. Kramer: https://www.amazon.com/Against-Depression-Peter-D-Kramer/dp/0143036963
• Ordinarily Well by Dr. Kramer: https://www.amazon.com/Ordinarily-Well-Antidepressants-Peter-Kramer/dp/0374536961
• Pierre Menard, Author of the Quixote by Jorge Luis Borges: https://raley.english.ucsb.edu/wp-content/Engl10/Pierre-Menard.pdf
• The Soul of A New Machine by Tracy Kidder: https://www.amazon.com/Soul-New-Machine-Tracy-Kidder/dp/0316491977
• Making Hay by Verlyn Klinkenborg: https://www.amazon.com/Making-Hay-Verlyn-Klinkenborg/dp/0941130185
• Oranges by John McPhee: https://www.amazon.com/Oranges-John-McPhee/dp/0374512973