Chetan Ahya: Can China Avoid a Lost Decade?

Chetan Ahya: Can China Avoid a Lost Decade?

Although China’s economy faces challenges in terms of debt, demographics and deflation, the right policy approach could ward off a debt deflation loop.


----- Transcript -----

Welcome to Thoughts on the Market. I'm Chetan Ahya, Morgan Stanley's Chief Asia Economist. Along with my colleagues, bringing you a variety of perspectives, today I'll be discussing the journey ahead for China as it faces the triple challenge of debt, demographics and deflation. It's Thursday, August 17, at 9 a.m. in Hong Kong.


Before we get into China, I want to take you back to the oft-told tale from the 1990s when Japan experienced what we now refer to as the ‘Lost Decade.’ During this period, the combination of economic stagnation and price deflation transformed a bustling economy in the 1980s, into an economy that grew at a little more than 1% annually over a decade.


Fast forward to today, where China is confronted with the triple challenge of debt, demographics and deflation, what we are calling the 3Ds. As a result, many investors are now concerned that China will be stuck in a debt deflation loop, just like Japan was in the 1990s.


But is China better placed to manage these headwinds even though the risks of falling into debt deflation loop remain high? We think at the starting point, the answer is yes, but with a few historical lessons that I'll get into in a moment.


For context, China compares better with the Japan of the 1990s in the following four aspects. First, asset prices in China have not run up as much. Second, per capita incomes are still lower in China, implying a higher potential growth runway. Third, unlike Japan, China has not experienced a big currency appreciation shock.


And finally, perhaps the most crucial difference is policy setting. Back in the 90s, the Bank of Japan kept real interest rates higher than real GDP growth between 1991 and 1995. But in contrast to Japan, China's real rates are below real GDP growth currently.


To explain, historically, when economies are seeking to stabilize or reduce debt, the key element is to ensure that there is adequate gap between real interest rates and real GDP growth. In Japan's case, real interest rates were maintained about real GDP growth for the first four years. A similar situation occurred in the US post the 1929 stock market crash. As real rates were kept high, it laid the ground for the beginnings of the Great Depression.


From both of these examples, the historical track shows two policy missteps. First, policymakers' concern about reigniting misallocation leads them to gravitate towards a hawkish bias. Second, policymakers tend to turn hawkish too quickly at the first signs of a recovery. During the Great Depression, easing of policies had led to recovery from 1933 onwards, but a premature tightening of policies in 1936 led to the double dip in 1937/38. Contrast this with the US after 2008, when the Fed was quick to bring rates to zero and embark on successive rounds of quantitative easing while fiscal policy was deployed in tandem.


Sustaining real interest rates 2 percentage points below real GDP growth is key to deleveraging. Why? Because if you think about it, deleveraging will not be possible if the interest rate on your debt is growing faster than the increase in your income.


In this context, while China's real interest rates are below real GDP growth currently, we still see the risk that policymakers will not take up reflationary policies to sustain the rates minus growth gap, which keeps the risk of China falling into debt deflation loop alive.


So what is the potential outcome? China's policymakers will need to act forcefully. If they don't, the economy could fall into debt deflation loop, persistent deflation would take hold, debt to GDP would keep rising, and GDP per capita in USD terms would stagnate, just as it happened in Japan in the 1990s. But, as history has shown us, that doesn't have to be the outcome.


Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed the show, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts and share Thoughts on the Market with a friend or a colleague today.

Avsnitt(1515)

Mike Wilson: U.S. Equities - Is the Worst Behind Us?

Mike Wilson: U.S. Equities - Is the Worst Behind Us?

Although economic and earnings data could be gloomy over the next month, have equity markets already discounted the bad news? Detailed analysis from Chief Investment Officer Mike Wilson.

30 Mars 20203min

Andrew Sheets: The Critical Calls of Financial Referees

Andrew Sheets: The Critical Calls of Financial Referees

Governments and central banks face two issues: A flight to liquidity and a global economy that showed signs of fatigue even before the pandemic. For investors seeking opportunities, it’s an important distinction.

27 Mars 20203min

Special Episode: Can $2 Trillion Flatten the Unemployment Curve?

Special Episode: Can $2 Trillion Flatten the Unemployment Curve?

As a record 3.28 million workers file for unemployment, our Chief U.S. Economist and Chief U.S. Public Policy researcher weigh potential effects from the fiscal package now before Congress.

26 Mars 20206min

Michael Zezas: Sizing Up the Stimulus Package

Michael Zezas: Sizing Up the Stimulus Package

Congressional leaders have reached a deal on a $2 trillion stimulus bill to deal with fallout from the coronavirus crisis. Will it work? Two criteria to watch for.

25 Mars 20202min

Mike Wilson: The Underlying Reasons for Recession

Mike Wilson: The Underlying Reasons for Recession

Mike Wilson looks beyond the coronavirus outbreak at the two key conditions which have made the markets vulnerable to a recession.

23 Mars 20203min

Andrew Sheets: First, Improve on Uncertainty

Andrew Sheets: First, Improve on Uncertainty

On this episode, Chief Cross-Asset Strategist Andrew Sheets says that the 4%+ swings in equities markets have made investors skeptical about jumping back in. More U.S. testing could help.

20 Mars 20203min

Andrew Sheets: Why We Think Risk/Reward Is Improving

Andrew Sheets: Why We Think Risk/Reward Is Improving

Although the sell-off may not be over and the global economy has tough days ahead, a growing number of factors suggest that risk/reward in markets may be getting better.

19 Mars 20203min

Special Episode: Imagining the Shape of Recovery

Special Episode: Imagining the Shape of Recovery

As central banks and governments weigh a litany of stimulus efforts, what could the journey to economic recovery look like? Our Chief U.S. Economist and Head of U.S. Public Policy Research sum up the debates.

18 Mars 20207min

Populärt inom Business & ekonomi

badfluence
framgangspodden
varvet
rss-jossan-nina
rss-borsens-finest
rss-svart-marknad
uppgang-och-fall
lastbilspodden
affarsvarlden
fill-or-kill
avanzapodden
24fragor
kapitalet-en-podd-om-ekonomi
rss-kort-lang-analyspodden-fran-di
rss-inga-dumma-fragor-om-pengar
borsmorgon
rss-dagen-med-di
bathina-en-podcast
rss-en-rik-historia
montrosepodden