Navigating the Quality and Cap Curves

Navigating the Quality and Cap Curves

A later cycle economy and continued uncertainty means that investors should be remain wary of cyclicals such as small caps, explains Mike Wilson, our CIO and Chief US Equity Strategist.


----- Transcript -----


Welcome to Thoughts on the Market. I'm Mike Wilson, Morgan Stanley’s CIO and Chief US Equity Strategist. Along with my colleagues bringing you a variety of perspectives, today I'll be talking about slowing growth in the context of high valuations.

It's Tuesday, July 30th at 3pm in New York.

So, let’s get after it.

Over the past few weeks, the equity markets have taken on a different complexion with the mega cap stocks lagging and lower quality small caps doing better. What does this mean for investor portfolios? And is the market telling us something about future fundamentals? In our view, we think most of this rotation is due to the de-grossing that is occurring within portfolios that are overweight large cap quality growth and underweight lower quality and smaller cap names.

We have long been in the camp that large cap quality has been the place to be – for equity investors – as opposed to diving down the quality and cap curves. That continues to be the case; though we are watching the fundamental and technical backdrop for small caps closely, and we’re respectful of the pace of the recent move in the space.

For now, however, we continue to think the better risk/reward is to stay up the quality curve and avoid the more cyclical parts in the market like small caps. Our rationale for such positioning is simple — in a later cycle economy where growth is softening or not translating into earnings growth for most companies, large cap quality outperforms.

Exacerbating the many imbalances across the economy is a bloated fiscal budget deficit. In our view, there are diminishing returns to fiscal spending when it starts to crowd out private companies and consumers. As I have been discussing for the past year, this crowding out has contributed to the bifurcation of performance in both the economy and equity markets, while potentially keeping the Fed's Interest rate policy tighter than it would have been otherwise.

While the macro data has been mixed, there is a growing debate around the actual strength of the labor market with the household survey painting a weaker picture than the non-farm payroll data which is based on employer surveys. The bottom line is that we are in a stable, but decelerating late cycle economy from a macro data standpoint. However, on the micro front, the data has not been as stable and is showing a more meaningful deterioration in growth; particularly as it relates to the consumer.

More specifically, earnings revision breadth has broken down recently for many of the cyclical parts of the market. Financials has been a bright spot here but that may be short-lived if the consumer continues to weaken. We continue to favor quality but with a greater focus on defensive sectors like utilities, staples and REITs as opposed to growthier ones like technology. The issue with the growth stocks is valuations and the quality of the earnings for some of the mega cap tech stocks.

The other variable weighing on stocks at the moment is valuations which remain in the top decile of the past 20 years. It’s worth noting that valuations are very sensitive to earnings revisions breadth. The last time revision breadth rolled over into negative territory was last fall. Between July and October 2023, the market multiple declined from 20x to 17x. Two weeks ago, this multiple was 22x and is now 21x. If earnings revisions continue to fade as we expect, it’s likely these valuations have further to fall. With our 12-month base case target multiple at 19x, the risk reward for equities broadly remains quite unfavorable at the moment.

Thanks for listening. If you enjoy the podcast, leave us a review wherever you listen, and share Thoughts on the Market with a friend or colleague today.

Avsnitt(1507)

Mike Wilson: U.S. Equities - Is the Worst Behind Us?

Mike Wilson: U.S. Equities - Is the Worst Behind Us?

Although economic and earnings data could be gloomy over the next month, have equity markets already discounted the bad news? Detailed analysis from Chief Investment Officer Mike Wilson.

30 Mars 20203min

Andrew Sheets: The Critical Calls of Financial Referees

Andrew Sheets: The Critical Calls of Financial Referees

Governments and central banks face two issues: A flight to liquidity and a global economy that showed signs of fatigue even before the pandemic. For investors seeking opportunities, it’s an important distinction.

27 Mars 20203min

Special Episode: Can $2 Trillion Flatten the Unemployment Curve?

Special Episode: Can $2 Trillion Flatten the Unemployment Curve?

As a record 3.28 million workers file for unemployment, our Chief U.S. Economist and Chief U.S. Public Policy researcher weigh potential effects from the fiscal package now before Congress.

26 Mars 20206min

Michael Zezas: Sizing Up the Stimulus Package

Michael Zezas: Sizing Up the Stimulus Package

Congressional leaders have reached a deal on a $2 trillion stimulus bill to deal with fallout from the coronavirus crisis. Will it work? Two criteria to watch for.

25 Mars 20202min

Mike Wilson: The Underlying Reasons for Recession

Mike Wilson: The Underlying Reasons for Recession

Mike Wilson looks beyond the coronavirus outbreak at the two key conditions which have made the markets vulnerable to a recession.

23 Mars 20203min

Andrew Sheets: First, Improve on Uncertainty

Andrew Sheets: First, Improve on Uncertainty

On this episode, Chief Cross-Asset Strategist Andrew Sheets says that the 4%+ swings in equities markets have made investors skeptical about jumping back in. More U.S. testing could help.

20 Mars 20203min

Andrew Sheets: Why We Think Risk/Reward Is Improving

Andrew Sheets: Why We Think Risk/Reward Is Improving

Although the sell-off may not be over and the global economy has tough days ahead, a growing number of factors suggest that risk/reward in markets may be getting better.

19 Mars 20203min

Special Episode: Imagining the Shape of Recovery

Special Episode: Imagining the Shape of Recovery

As central banks and governments weigh a litany of stimulus efforts, what could the journey to economic recovery look like? Our Chief U.S. Economist and Head of U.S. Public Policy Research sum up the debates.

18 Mars 20207min

Populärt inom Business & ekonomi

framgangspodden
badfluence
varvet
rss-jossan-nina
rss-borsens-finest
rss-svart-marknad
uppgang-och-fall
avanzapodden
lastbilspodden
fill-or-kill
rss-dagen-med-di
affarsvarlden
borsmorgon
rss-inga-dumma-fragor-om-pengar
rss-kort-lang-analyspodden-fran-di
market-makers
bathina-en-podcast
rikatillsammans-om-privatekonomi-rikedom-i-livet
bilar-med-sladd
kvalitetsaktiepodden