Vote 2020: NZME cannabis referendum debate

The arguments for and against legalising cannabis for personal use are at the centre of tonight's debate about next month's referendum.
Hosted by Newstalk ZB's Heather du Plessis-Allan, the debate features Drug Foundation executive director Ross Bell, Associate Professor of Law Khylee Quince - who is a member of the expert panel of the PM's chief science adviser's expert panel on cannabis, Police Association president Chris Cahill, and Say Nope to Dope spokesman Aaron Ironside.
Cahill said police will follow whatever the public decide, but he warned that without the right price or the right THC (the psychoactive ingredient) level, users would simply stick to the black market.
Ironside argued that youth use would increase under legalisation simply because "it will be everywhere", but Bell and Cahill both cited Canada, where youth use fell - official statistics which Ironside challenged.
Bell said the proposed legal regulation in New Zealand would protect young users because millions of dollars would be available for education and treatment, and it was easier to talk to young people about legally regulated products.
Cahill said 50 per cent of cannabis in Canada was being bought on the legal market within the first year of legalisation, but most people who were vulnerable users were more likely to stay with the black market.
He said it was "nearly impossible" to get thrown in jail for use/possession of cannabis.
But Quince said Ministry of Justice statistics showed 230 people in 2019/20 were convicted for cannabis use/possession alone, and five of them were jailed.
Cahill said he didn't believe people were jailed and it was more likely they did a short stint in jail in place of a large fine they couldn't pay.
He said police action for cannabis use/possession had dropped signicantly, but it should be up to Parliament to decriminalise drugs if it's what lawmakers wanted.
It shouldn't be done by police discretion, which is applied differently in different regions and to different people.
Ironside said he used cannabis everyday for three years and his mental health "crashed".
"I couldn't push away the anxiety and depression."
Cahill said most cops were against legalisation because of the harm they've seen, especially in rural, deprived communities.
Bell said cannabis was already here, and it was about how to reduce harm. "We aren't inventing cannabis."
And Quince, who is from Northland, said the isse was not about using, but why people used, and more health treatment was crucial to reducing harm.
Bell said legalisation would help people wanting to use it for medicinal purposes, but unable to access cheap, legal medicinal cannabis products.
Quince added that people often used it for low level anxiety or sleeping trouble, issues that people don't go to the doctor for.
But Ironside said that wasn't a reason to vote 'yes'. It was a reason to fix the current law around medicinal cannabis.
An expert panel led by chief science adviser to the PM Dr Juliet Gerrard has published detailed information about the issue - without taking any sides.
Gerrard has said that the key issue is about whether legalisation under the proposed controls would reduce cannabis-related harm more than the status quo.
Those harms are not only health ones - which mainly affect young users or heavy users - but also social ones, such as how a cannabis conviction can see someone excluded from society or unable to find work.
The panel said New Zealand's proposed regime was closer to Canada's than any other region overseas where personal use was legal.
Canada legalised two years ago, and since then there's been a moderate increase in occasional adult use, an increase in daily or almost daily use for those over 65, and no reported change in use among those aged 15-24 for occasional or frequent use.
The panel, whose work has been nationally and...

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