The Power of AI in Pricing Optimization for B2B and B2C Markets with George Boretos

Craig Wilson, Director of Pricing and Packaging at Moody's Analytics, brings extensive experience from major financial services companies including S&P and Experian. Starting his career in financial analysis at a Scottish car retailer after his soccer dreams didn't materialize, Craig discovered his natural strengths in numbers and analytical tools, leading him to specialize in pricing across subscription products, deal desk operations, and information technology services. In this episode, Craig explores the dual challenge of AI in pricing: how to monetize AI-enhanced products and how to leverage AI tools for pricing decisions. Drawing from his experience at Moody's, he discusses why traditional pricing principles still apply to AI products while acknowledging the fundamental disruption AI creates for per-user models. Craig shares practical insights on using AI as a pricing coach and the critical importance of early involvement in product development.   Why you have to check out today's podcast: Learn why AI pricing follows traditional value-based principles but requires new approaches to pricing metrics and value capture. Discover practical ways to use AI tools like Microsoft Copilot for pricing strategy, stakeholder communication, and sales enablement. Understand the critical timing of pricing involvement in AI product development to influence monetization strategies from the ground up.   "Get involved in the product development process as early as possible, particularly in the era of Gen AI and agentic AI."  – Craig Wilson   Topics Covered: 01:30 — Craig's pricing journey: From Scottish car retailer to Moody's Analytics pricing leader 04:15 — Why AI pricing fundamentals haven't changed: Still about value creation and capture 06:30 — The consensus problem: No clear patterns yet in AI pricing 08:45 — Use case example: using AI to do pricing 11:15 — Using AI as a pricing coach: Daily conversations with Microsoft Copilot for strategy development  14:30 — Communication enhancement: Translating pricing concepts for different business personas 16:45 — Sales enablement evolution: AI-powered guidance for complex solution positioning 19:20 — Trust and validation concerns: The information vs. agentic AI distinction 21:45 — Economic value estimation: How AI can finally make this pricing holy grail practical 23:30 — The monetization investment gap: Companies building AI capabilities without pricing strategies   Key Takeaways: On Early Involvement in Product Development:  "Get involved in the product development process as early as possible, particularly in the era of Gen AI and agentic AI." – Craig Wilson On Per-User Pricing's Death:  "In the world of particularly agentic AI solutions, the per-user model is becoming obsolete. I can't see a place for it." – Craig Wilson   Resources and People Mentioned: Moody's Analytics: https://www.moodysanalytics.com/  Tom Nagle: "Strategy and Tactics of Pricing" book: https://www.taylorfrancis.com/books/mono/10.4324/9781315266220/strategy-tactics-pricing-thomas-nagle-john-hogan-joseph-zale  Steven Forth: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevenforth/  Kyle Poyar: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kyle-poyar/  Stuart Wintertere: LinkedIn thought leader on AI value  Microsoft Copilot: Daily AI coaching tool    Connect with Craig Wilson:  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/craig-wilson-5857ba4a/  Email: craig.wilson@moodys.com   Connect with Mark Stiving:   LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/   Email: mark@impactpricing.com

4 Aug 25min

This is an Impact Pricing Blog published on June 2, 2025, turned into an audio podcast so you can listen on the go. Read Full Article Here: https://impactpricing.com/blog/jobs-to-be-done-vs-problems-and-results-whats-more-useful-in-b2b/ If you have any feedback, definitely send it. You can reach us at mark@impactpricing.com.  Now, go make an impact.   Connect with Mark Stiving: Email: mark@impactpricing.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/

1 Aug 3min

Steven Forth has been a frequent guest on Impact Pricing and is a co-creator of the COMPASS framework. Michael Mansard is the Principal Director of Subscription Strategy at Zora. He's an investor in and mentor to several startups, and he started his career in consulting at companies like Deloitte and SAP, so he knows a lot. In this episode, Steven and Michael dive deep into the COMPASS framework for evaluating pricing metrics in the age of AI and agentic systems, exploring how traditional SaaS economics are being turned upside down and why companies need to move away from user-based pricing models.   Why you have to check out today's podcast:  Learn why AI pricing fundamentally breaks the traditional SaaS model of "expensive to build, cheap to run". Understand the COMPASS framework's 14-question assessment for selecting optimal pricing metrics. Explore the accelerating cycles of pricing complexity and simplification across technology waves.   "I think that most people are clueless and do not want to admit that they're clueless. And I think admission is key because admission leads you to a scientific approach to pricing and enables you to accept, to try smaller samples, especially in the age of AI."  – Michael Mansard   Topics Covered:  02:08 – How Michael got into pricing  03:12 – Defining business models vs. pricing models vs. pricing metrics  06:22 – Introduction to the COMPASS framework and why it exists  07:25 – How AI flips traditional SaaS economics on its head 08:03 – The gym membership paradox in AI pricing 11:05 – Steven's perspective on whether pricing fundamentals have changed  24:20 – Pricing evolution cycles and their accelerating speed  27:39 – How COMPASS captures competitive differentiation  34:28 – Michael's pricing advice on embracing iteration and admitting uncertainty   Key Takeaways: "I've seen more change in my part of the technology world in the last six months than I've seen in my entire lifetime." – Steven Forth “If you price it per user, the more a user uses it, the worse margin it would yield. And that's a problem, right? So I call that the gym membership paradox." – Michael Mansard "We need to change the metric. Now the billion dollar question is what metric? And the raison d'être of that framework is exactly that. It's to help people navigate, hence the notion of COMPASS." – Michael Mansard   People / Resources Mentioned:  COMPASS Framework: 14-question assessment for pricing metrics: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/compass-agentic-ai-pricing-metric-framework-your-2-part-mansard-f9qqe  Roger Martin Strategic Choice Cascade: Framework for aligning pricing with business strategy: https://rogermartin.medium.com/decoding-the-strategy-choice-cascade-475d40555eb1 John Maeda's "The Laws of Simplicity": Design principles applicable to pricing models: https://lawsofsimplicity.com/  Karan Sood: https://www.linkedin.com/in/soodkaran/  PriceFX: Company introducing 125 agents: https://www.pricefx.com/ and https://lp.pricefx.com/agents_trial.html   Connect with Steven Forth:  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevenforth/  Email: steven@ibbaka.com   Connect with Michael Mansard:  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelmansard/    Connect with Mark Stiving:  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/  Email: mailto:mark@impactpricing.com

28 Juli 36min

This is an Impact Pricing Blog published on May 26, 2025, turned into an audio podcast so you can listen on the go. Read Full Article Here: https://impactpricing.com/blog/value-is-not-the-same-as-willingness-to-pay/ If you have any feedback, definitely send it. You can reach us at mark@impactpricing.com.  Now, go make an impact.   Connect with Mark Stiving: Email: mark@impactpricing.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/

25 Juli 4min

Steven Forth is the Co-founder and Chief Value Officer at Ibbaka, a leading value and pricing consulting firm. With deep expertise in AI applications for pricing and value modeling, Steven is at the forefront of developing intelligent agents that help businesses understand and communicate value more effectively. His work focuses on the intersection of artificial intelligence, pricing strategy, and value creation, making him a pioneer in applying AI to solve complex pricing challenges. In this episode, Steven shares his insights on how benchmarking is revolutionizing both AI development and pricing strategy. Drawing parallels between how AI models are improved through benchmarking and how pricing models should be evaluated, he introduces a framework for measuring pricing effectiveness that could transform how we approach pricing decisions. Together with Mark, they explore the challenges of establishing "truth" in pricing, the role of synthetic data, and the future of AI-powered pricing tools.   Why you have to check out today's podcast: Discover how AI benchmarking principles can revolutionize pricing model evaluation. Understand how to evaluate pricing models from both buyer and seller perspectives. Explore the future of AI-powered pricing tools and what it means for pricing professionals.   "We don't start with the truth. We have to work our way towards truth through multiple iterations and applications." – Steven Forth   Topics Covered: 02:15 – How Intercom's FinAI agent uses daily benchmarking to improve ticket resolution performance 05:30 – Why AI's success is built on benchmarking and how it emerged from the ImageNet competition 08:45 – The critical problem: pricing lacks standardized benchmarking like AI models have 11:20 – Michael Mansard's 12-factor pricing model assessment and its potential as an industry standard 14:10 – Why pricing models must be evaluated from both buyer and seller perspectives 17:25 – How market segmentation and use cases complicate pricing model benchmarking 20:40 – The role of synthetic data in pricing research and model validation 24:15 – Why "vibe coding" could disrupt traditional pricing consulting within 3 years 27:30 – The search for truth in pricing: hedonic pricing models and market assumptions 31:45 – Introduction to ValueIQ: Ibbaka's new AI agent for value-based selling   Key Takeaways: "Anyone who says that they're data centric or data driven is actually before that they have to be model driven because they're using some form of model to organize the data." – Steven Forth "We should have done this 20 years ago. What were we thinking? Well, we weren't thinking. And we didn't have ways to do this for us anyway." – Steven Forth (on developing pricing benchmarks) "Benchmarking every day, I think, is going to be critical to the success of agents that do important business things." – Steven Forth "You can always improve your measurement, but at some point the return of improving the measurement is lower than the cost of increasing the validity of the measurement." – Steven Forth   Resources and People Mentioned: Douglas Hubbard's How to Measure Anything (book): https://www.amazon.com/How-Measure-Anything-Intangibles-Business/dp/1118539273  ImageNet: https://image-net.org/  Michael Mansard's 12-Factor Pricing Model: https://www.insead.edu/bio/michael-mansard-0  Intercom's FinAI: https://www.intercom.com/help/en/articles/8205718-fin-ai-agent-resolutions  Lovable, Replit, Bolt: https://linkblink.medium.com/bolt-vs-cursor-vs-replit-vs-lovable-ai-coders-comparison-guide-3b9d41e75810  ValueIQ: https://www.ibbaka.com/ibbaka-market-blog/get-ready-for-valueiq-sign-up-now-for-beta-access    Connect with Steven Forth: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevenforth/  Email: steven@ibbaka.com   Connect with Mark Stiving: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/ Email: mark@impactpricing.com

21 Juli 35min

This is an Impact Pricing Blog published on May 19, 2025, turned into an audio podcast so you can listen on the go. Read Full Article Here: https://impactpricing.com/blog/the-two-questions-every-buyer-asks-and-how-to-design-your-product-and-pricing-around-them/ If you have any feedback, definitely send it. You can reach us at mark@impactpricing.com.  Now, go make an impact.   Connect with Mark Stiving: Email: mark@impactpricing.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/

18 Juli 4min

Alan Hollander, VP of Offer Packaging and Pricing Strategy at Blackbaud, has led pricing initiatives for six years. With nearly three decades in pricing, his impressive career began in 1994 when Tom Nagle hired him after Alan excelled in Nagle's "Strategy and Tactics of Pricing" course. He also held key roles at Ellucian and Simon-Kucher & Partners, bringing deep expertise in large-scale pricing transformations. In this episode, Alan addresses a major challenge for SaaS companies: how AI disrupts traditional per-user pricing. Drawing on his experience at Blackbaud (serving nonprofits with CRM and financial tools), he explains why AI's efficiency conflicts with seat-based pricing. He and Mark discuss the difficulties of shifting customers to new pricing models, managing multiple approaches, and implementing pricing innovations gradually.   Why you have to check out today's podcast: Understand why AI is fundamentally incompatible with per-user pricing and what alternatives actually work in practice. Learn how to implement pricing model changes without overwhelming your organization's operational capabilities. Discover the "crawl, walk, run" approach to pricing transformation that builds momentum through proven results.   "Don't go right to the end goal, in the future state, because people are just going to look at you cross-eyed. Start with quick wins, start with test pilots, test the concepts, show the results, quantify the results so you can build momentum in launching new pricing models." — Alan Hollander   Topics Covered: 01:30 — Alan's pricing journey: From Tom Nagle's student to Strategic Pricing Group veteran 02:45 — The AI pricing dilemma: Pricing products with AI vs. using AI for pricing 04:15 — Why AI pricing isn't different: It's still all about jobs-to-be-done and value creation 11:15 — The nonprofit sector challenge: Selling efficiency when budgets are already tight 14:30 — Human augmentation vs. job replacement: Reframing the AI conversation 16:45 — The Salesforce problem: When AI doubles productivity but revenue stays flat 19:20 — Blackbaud's approach: Combining user-based and consumption-based models 21:45 — Market segmentation reality: Financial vs. fundraising as separate buying centers 24:10 — The PayPal model: Why percentage-of-success pricing works for fundraising 26:30 — Optional pricing models: Letting customers choose fixed vs. variable approaches 28:45 — The operational reality check: Systems and processes needed for pricing flexibility 31:00 — The "crawl, walk, run" philosophy: Building momentum through incremental wins   Key Takeaways: "Per user is not going to be the answer. You're going to stagnate because unless you're just going to increase your per user price, it doesn't align with how they consume, how they use, what value they get." — Alan Hollander "Sometimes you have to do the right things before you do things right... you can have a beautiful strategy in terms of how you monetize and price, and it's very elegant and you've done all the analytics and it looks super cool. But sometimes you actually need to basically what I would say, do a crawl, walk, run." — Alan Hollander "If you don't lead with the value, I don't care if it's AI, SaaS, it doesn't matter what it is. If you don't lead with the value in a business case... you're not going to get anywhere." — Alan Hollander   Resources and People Mentioned: Blackbaud: https://www.blackbaud.com/  Tom Nagle: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thomas-tom-nagle  Reed Holden: https://www.linkedin.com/in/reed-holden-913ab69/    Connect with Alan Hollander: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alan-hollander-753167/  Email: alan.hollander@blackbaud.com   Connect with Mark Stiving: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/ Email: mark@impactpricing.com

14 Juli 32min

This is an Impact Pricing Blog published on May 12, 2025, turned into an audio podcast so you can listen on the go. Read Full Article Here: https://impactpricing.com/blog/markets-dont-segment-by-industry-buyers-segment-by-problem/ If you have any feedback, definitely send it. You can reach us at mark@impactpricing.com.  Now, go make an impact.   Connect with Mark Stiving: Email: mark@impactpricing.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/

11 Juli 2min