EP09: Do Necons or Active measures define the defund Ukraine movement?

Summary:

In this episode we explore the potential motivations behind the "defund Ukraine" movement. We posit two primary scenarios: Scenario 1 attributes the movement to an organic backlash against the post-9/11 US neoconservative agenda and its perceived failures, like the Iraq War. Scenario 2 suggests the movement is a product of successful Russian "active measures," a covert propaganda campaign aimed at destabilizing foreign opponents through misinformation and manipulation. We invite further exploration of these possibilities, highlighting the importance of discerning whether the movement is a genuine response to US foreign policy or a result of Russian influence.

Questions to consider as you read/listen:

1. What are the motivations and potential consequences of the "defund Ukraine" movement?
2. How do the ideas of "neoconservatism" and "active measures" relate to the current political climate and the Ukraine conflict?
3. To what extent has the "neocon revolution" shaped the current US foreign policy and its approach to international conflicts?

Long format:

Necons and Active measures define Ukraine

This may kick up a hornet’s nest or it may not, but here it goes….

If I had a bet, the outcome of the election won’t decide IF the US becomes more isolationist, but rather to what degree.

The neocon days of democracy spreading, being world police and the like seems to me to have pretty much spun out of energy. The wholesale seizure of policy by the neocons after 9/11 has come and it seems gone except for some entrenched isolated parts of the bureaucracy.

It’s interesting to contemplate if the current anti-Ukraine or defund Ukraine movement is an organic reaction to the neocon movement post 9/11 or if it is successful Russian active measures exercise as some suggest.

Just a thought. Is it the former or the latter or a combination of the both?

I guess my main focus I’m trying to discern is whether or not the defund Ukraine message is either:

Scenario 1: an organic, referring to one that has come about natively (without outside influence), as a reaction to internal stimuli mostly likely as an abrupt reaction to the US neocon revolution (Bernard Lewis, Lulu Schwartz, Richard and Daniel Pipes, David Horowitz, and Robert Kagan as executed by Bush Jr, Paul Wolfowitz, Elliott Abrams, Richard Perle, Paul Bremer, and Douglas Feith and as some suggest Cheney, Armitage and Rumsfeld) post 9-11 and questions and the experience of the invasion of Iraq

Or

Scenario 2: It is a successful Russian active measures event. Active measures referring to an actor’s covert propaganda campaign that is used to destabilize a foreign opponent through misinformation to affect the news cycle or social media echo chambers or recruitment of unwitting protagonists of a cause that the unwitting person leans towards and messages them until they sway fully and actively in the desired direction (useful idiots)?

Suggested additional reading:

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/foreign-interference-and-active-measures-why-overstating-disinformation-campaigns-helps-hostile-states-12048341

Thomas Rid’s Active Measures: The Secret History of Disinformation and Political Warfare