Michael Levin and Joscha Bach: The Shape of Collective Thought

Michael Levin and Joscha Bach explore the idea of a global mind, collective intelligence, agency, and how morphogenesis might shape cognition. They debate the boundaries between biology and computation, and consider what competence means for cells and societies.0:00 Introduction1:55 Bach and Levin discuss each other's work3:34 Cells as neuron-like units7:15 Software as control pattern10:55 Academic disciplinary boundaries14:38 Perceptron as brain toy model18:44 Researcher identity20:10 Podcast vs academia benefits30:04 Drastic belief changes38:54 Memory beyond brain45:06 Engrams and storage47:30 Transferring memory across species55:25 Weissman's barrier59:25 Notion of competence1:12:10 Virtualization for unreliable hardware1:16:02 Defining competence1:22:35 Goals and teleology issues1:27:34 Planarian goals and encoded instructions1:34:55 Navigation in morphic space1:36:11 One species' defect as benefit1:37:42 Intelligence trap and bias1:39:05 Applying each other's work1:52:25 General intelligence necessities in cellsSPONSORS:- Drink Trade: 30% off at https://www.drinktrade.com/everything- Uncommon Goods: 15% off your first gift at https://www.uncommongoods.com/podcast/everything- Roman: 20% off first order at https://ro.co/curt- Masterworks: promo code theoriesofeverything at https://www.masterworks.art/toeEvery episode days early, ad-free, plus my essays: https://curtjaimungal.substack.com/subscribeRESOURCES:- YouTube link: https://youtu.be/kgMFnfB5E_A- http://theoriesofeverything.org- *New* TOE Website (early access to episodes): https://theoriesofeverything.org/- Patreon: https://patreon.com/curtjaimungal- Crypto: https://nowpayments.io/donation/TOE- PayPal: https://tinyurl.com/paypalTOE- Twitter: https://twitter.com/TOEwithCurt- Discord Invite: https://discord.com/invite/kBcnfNVwqs- iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/better-left-unsaid-with-curt-jaimungal/id1521758802- Pandora: https://pdora.co/33b9lfP- Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4gL14b92xAErofYQA7bU4e- Subreddit r/TheoriesOfEverything: https://reddit.com/r/theoriesofeverything- Michael Levin (Solo TOE podcast): https://youtu.be/Z0TNfysTazc- Michael Levin Theolocution With Chris Fields & Karl Friston: https://youtu.be/J6eJ44Jq_pw- Joscha Bach Theolocution With John Vervaeke: https://youtu.be/rK7ux_JhHM4- Joscha Bach Theolocution With Donald Hoffman: https://youtu.be/bhSlYfVtgww- Joscha Bach (Solo TOE podcast): https://youtu.be/3MNBxfrmfmI Theories of Everything with Curt Jaimungal features long-form, technically detailed interviews with leading researchers in physics, mathematics, consciousness, and philosophy, exploring topics at the level of active research. For academics, graduate students, and anyone seeking depth beyond popular science. SPONSOR: I personally subscribe to The Economist. FLASH SALE through Sep 23, 2026: 60% off the annual subscription! No other podcast has this! https://economist.com/TOE FOLLOW: Substack | Spotify | YouTube | Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices