S2 Episode Twelve: Professor Dympna Devine "What has social justice got to do with pedagogy?"

In this episode I speak to Professor Dympna Devine in an episode entitled, "What has social justice got to do with pedagogy?" a title which Dympna explains was inspired by a question from a student in a module that she taught on equalities and social justice. Professor Devine is a full Professor of Education in UCD School of Education. Her specialist field is sociology, researching at the intersection of sociologies of education and sociologies of childhood, and the impact of education on society. Dympna is currently leading the first large-scale mixed methods longitudinal study (2018 - 2025) exploring children’s primary schooling experiences in Ireland : Children’s School Lives (www.cslstudy.ie). She previously led a longitudinal study (2017 - 2022) of children's primary school lives in rural Sierra Leone (www.safelearning.ie) which received a UCD case study impact award in 2023. Both studies build on her long-standing research into children’s everyday lives, focusing on their voices, rights, identities and equalities across home and school. Professor Devine shares her motivation to focus on sociology, which was sparked by her interdisciplinary B.Ed. at St. Patrick's College and her work with Professor Kathleen Lynch. A former Fulbright scholar and Marie Curie Fellow, Dympna has an extensive portfolio of doctoral and postdoctoral supervision, and has published widely in the areas of migrant children in education, children’s rights and citizenship, pedagogies and school cultures for social justice and equality. Our conversation begins with a discussion highlighting the challenge for students to connect their everyday classroom experiences with wider concepts and theories of sociology of education. Professor Devine emphasizes the importance of bringing sociology of education into the everyday reality of classrooms and making it relevant to teachers, school principals, and children. Professor Devine explains that pedagogy is central to the micro and macro dynamics in society, with a focus on relationships between teachers and students. We discuss the concept of sociological imagination, which involves developing a different way of seeing things through the use of specific concepts and ideas. Dympna highlights the importance of understanding the dynamics of structure and agency in pedagogy, particularly in the relationship between teachers and students. She emphasizes the need for socially just informed pedagogy to create meaningful opportunities for children through education. Dympna’s research has focused on understanding children's social worlds, power relations in schools, and the impact of migration and ethnicity on children's experiences. Dympna provides an overview of the "Children's School Lives" study, which is the first in-depth longitudinal cohort study of primary school children in Ireland. The study tracked 4000 children over five years, with 189 primary schools participating, and included both quantitative and qualitative research methods. The study focused on themes such as family, school and teaching cultures, equality, voice and inclusion, well-being, children's engagement with learning, and transitions to secondary school. Dympna highlights the importance of the study in informing the primary curriculum reform in Ireland and its impact on policy and practice with the NCCA finding the research useful for evidence-based reform. Professor Devine reflects on the importance of education as a public good and the role of teachers in fostering active citizenship among children.She emphasizes the need for socially just pedagogies to facilitate children's participation and contribution to society,highlighting the strong commitment to care and nurture among primary school teachers in Ireland, which is evident in the "Children's School Lives" study. She concludes by emphasizing the importance of teachers' trust and the value of education in maintaining a strong democracy. A must-listen episode!