33. David Quammen — The Tangled Tree: A Radical New History of Life

33. David Quammen — The Tangled Tree: A Radical New History of Life

In this dialogue with one of the best nature and science writers of our generation, David Quammen and Michael Shermer discuss his new book on the history of one of the most exciting revolutions in evolution and genetics that is unfolding before our eyes. In the mid-1970s, scientists began using DNA sequences to reexamine the history of all life. Perhaps the most startling discovery to come out of this new field—the study of life’s diversity and relatedness at the molecular level—is horizontal gene transfer (HGT), or the movement of genes across species lines. It turns out that HGT has been widespread and important. For instance, we now know that roughly eight percent of the human genome arrived not through traditional inheritance from directly ancestral forms, but sideways by viral infection—a type of HGT.

In The Tangled Tree David Quammen chronicles these discoveries through the lives of the researchers who made them—such as Carl Woese, the most important little-known biologist of the twentieth century; Lynn Margulis, the notorious maverick whose wild ideas about “mosaic” creatures proved to be true; and Tsutomu Wantanabe, who discovered that the scourge of antibiotic-resistant bacteria is a direct result of horizontal gene transfer, bringing the deep study of genome histories to bear on a global crisis in public health.

As well, Quammen and Shermer discuss how molecular studies of evolution have brought startling recognitions about the tangled tree of life—including where we humans fit upon it. Thanks to new technologies such as CRISPR, we now have the ability to alter even our genetic composition—through sideways insertions, as nature has long been doing. They consider the ethical issues involved in bringing back extinct species, the meaning of the “self” if we are actually mosaics of different species, and the trans-humanist dream of re-engineering the human genome so our species can become post-human.

David Quammen is the author of a dozen fiction and nonfiction books, including Blood Line and The Song of the Dodo. His book Spillover: Animal Infections and the Next Human Pandemic was a finalist for seven awards and received two of them: the Science and Society Book Award, given by the National Association of Science Writers, and the Society of Biology (UK) Book Award in General Biology. A three-time National Magazine Award winner, he is a contributing writer for National Geographic and has written also for Harper’s, Outside, Esquire, The Atlantic, Powder, and Rolling Stone. He received honorary doctorates from Montana State University and Colorado College. He travels widely on assignment, usually to jungles, mountains, remote islands, and swamps.

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Sex Work, Ethics, and Evolutionary Psychology: What REALLY Happens on Sugar Daddy Websites?

Sex Work, Ethics, and Evolutionary Psychology: What REALLY Happens on Sugar Daddy Websites?

What is a sugar daddy, really? The answer might disturb you. Brook Urick takes us into the shadowy world of sugar dating, where young women are lured into dangerous situations under the guise of financial security. From being a would-be sugar baby to becoming the public face of SeekingArrangement, Urick unveils the unsettling truth about these platforms and their role in enabling predatory behavior. Urick’s revelations go beyond personal experience. She exposes how these websites intentionally protect exploiters, with their founder even caught in a sting operation attempting to meet a minor. With the passage of FOSTA-SESTA in 2018, making these platforms criminally liable, she questions why they still exist. Her goal? To bring public awareness and legal scrutiny to an industry built on deception and harm. Shermer and Urick discuss the realities of sugar dating, the blurred lines between sex work and exploitation, and the psychology of men and women in the industry. They explore legal and ethical debates, feminist perspectives, and societal consequences of prostitution and pornography. Urick shares her experiences at SeekingArrangement, including the dangers young women face and the website’s role in fostering systemic abuse and deception.

18 Feb 1h 45min

Half a Thousand Episodes: Still Chasing Truth

Half a Thousand Episodes: Still Chasing Truth

In our 501st episode, Michael Shermer takes a moment to reflect on his long journey with skepticism and what he learned recording half a thousand episodes of this podcast. He shares his thoughts on what it means for something to be truly “real” by comparing our personal experiences with evidence-backed facts, tackles the challenge of controversial and extraordinary claims, and even explores how mystical ideas or literary works can offer their own kind of truth.

11 Feb 37min

The Faith Deficit: Does America Need a Spiritual Backbone?

The Faith Deficit: Does America Need a Spiritual Backbone?

What happens to American democracy if Christianity is no longer able, or no longer willing, to perform the functions on which our constitutional order depends? Jonathan Rauch—a lifelong atheist—reckons candidly with both the shortcomings of secularism and the corrosion of Christianity. Thin Christianity, as Rauch calls the mainline church, has been unable to inspire and retain believers. Worse, a Church of Fear has distorted white evangelicalism in ways that violate the tenets of both Jesus and James Madison. What to do? For answers, Rauch looks to a new generation of religious thinkers, as well as to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which has placed the Constitution at the heart of its spiritual teachings. In this timely critique Rauch addresses secular Americans who think Christianity can be abandoned, and Christian Americans who blame secular culture for their grievances. The two must work together, he argues, to confront our present crisis. He calls on Christians to recommit to the teachings of their faith that align with Madison, not MAGA, and to understand that liberal democracy, far from being oppressive, is uniquely protective of religious freedom. At the same time, he calls on secular liberals to understand that healthy religious institutions are crucial to the survival of the liberal state. Jonathan Rauch is a senior fellow in the Governance Studies program at the Brookings Institution in Washington DC and a contributing writer of The Atlantic. His new book is Cross Purposes: Christianity’s Broken Bargain with Democracy.

4 Feb 1h 29min

The Psychology of Serial Killers

The Psychology of Serial Killers

Dr. Rachel Toles, a licensed forensic psychologist, delves into the psychology of criminals, addressing the motivations behind some of the world’s most notorious killers. Her expertise spans trauma, addiction, and impulse control, culminating in her upcoming U.S. theater tour, The Psychology of a Murderer. Through captivating case studies, Toles sheds light on the dark corners of human behavior. In her show and forthcoming book, Toles examines the pathways leading ordinary people to commit extraordinary violence. She explores infamous cases, including Jeffrey Dahmer and Charles Manson, while revealing a proprietary formula for understanding evil. Her work intertwines cutting-edge psychology with gripping storytelling, leaving audiences both disturbed and enlightened. Shermer and Toles discuss the psychology of mass murderers, causes of evil, and the fascination with true crime. They analyze infamous killers like Dahmer, the Menendez Brothers, and Manson, exploring traits like narcissism and psychopathy. Topics include experiments like Milgram’s and the Stanford Prison Study, factors driving violence, and why ordinary individuals can commit atrocities.

28 Jan 1h 59min

What if Death Isn’t the End? The Science of Forever

What if Death Isn’t the End? The Science of Forever

Just as surgeons once believed pain was good for their patients, some argue today that death brings meaning to life. But given humans rarely live beyond a century (while certain whales can thrive for over two hundred years) it’s hard not to see our biological limits as profoundly unfair. No wonder then that most people nearing death wish they still had more time. Yet, with ever-advancing science, will the ends of our lives always loom so close? Ariel Zeleznikow-Johnston is a neuroscientist at Monash University, Australia, where he investigates methods for characterizing the nature of conscious experiences. His research interests range from the decline, preservation and rescue of cognitive function at different stages of the lifespan.

21 Jan 1h 30min

What Are We Really Fighting Over? Understanding Outrage Through Moral Psychology

What Are We Really Fighting Over? Understanding Outrage Through Moral Psychology

In this episode, Kurt Gray offers a groundbreaking perspective on the moral mind, challenging the assumption that liberals and conservatives have radically different moral foundations. Drawing on the latest science, he reveals that everyone’s moral judgments stem from feelings of vulnerability to harm. We all care about protecting ourselves and others, but conflict arises when we perceive harm differently. Gray explores how moral outrage is triggered when we disagree about who the “real” victim is, whether in political debates, personal conflicts, or even everyday situations.

14 Jan 1h 49min

How to Start a New Country

How to Start a New Country

It’s clear states, borders, and countries constantly evolve. But how do countries form? And what does it take to start a new one? In this episode, Michael interviews Erick Brimen, founder of Prospera, a project dedicated to creating Special Economic Zones that foster economic growth through free-market governance. Brimen shares insights into the challenges of governance in developing nations, lessons learned from Venezuela’s economic collapse (despite the country having the world’s largest oil reserves), and successful governance models in places like Dubai (a small desert fishing and pearl diving village until the early 1970s) and Hong Kong (under British rule until 1997).

7 Jan 1h

How the Greatest Investors Win in Life and Markets

How the Greatest Investors Win in Life and Markets

William Green delves into the lives of iconic investors like Buffett, Munger, and Templeton, unraveling how their approaches extend beyond financial success. These super-investors possess unique skills such as rigorous thinking, resilience, and intuition. Through years of interviews, Green reveals how their principles can improve decision-making, manage risks, and help us thrive in uncertain environments. William Green has written for top publications like Time, Forbes, and The Economist, and edited Time’s Asian and European editions. He coauthored several books, including Guy Spier’s The Education of a Value Investor. Born in London, he studied English at Oxford and earned a journalism master’s at Columbia. Now based in New York, he lives with his family. His latest book is Richer, Wiser, Happier: How the World’s Greatest Investors Win in Markets and Life. Shermer and Green discuss the financial literacy of Americans, the mechanics of wealth creation, and the psychology behind investment decisions. They cover the stock market, the importance of resilience, and the relationship between money, happiness, and luck. The conversation includes wisdom from legendary investors, the power of compound interest, and practical strategies for financial independence.

21 Dec 20241h 48min

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