122. Walter Scheidel — Escape from Rome: The Failure of the Empire and the Road to Prosperity

In his new book Coming Clean, Eric Heinze rejects the idea that we should be less woke. In fact, we need more wokeness, but of a new kind. Yes, we must teach about classism, racism, colonialism, patriarchy, and other gross injustices, but we must also educate the public about the left’s own support for regimes that damaged and destroyed millions of lives for over a century—Stalin in the Soviet Union, Mao Zedong in China, Pol Pot in Cambodia, or the Kim dynasty in North Korea. Criticisms of Western wrongdoing are certainly important, yet Heinze explains that most on the political left have rarely engaged in the kinds of open and public self-scrutiny that they demand from others. Citing examples as different as the Ukraine war, LGBTQ+ people in Cuba, the concept of “hatred,” and the problem of leftwing antisemitism, Heinze explains why and how the left must change its memory politics if it is to claim any ethical high ground. Eric Heinze is Professor of Law and Humanities at Queen Mary University of London. He is the author of The Most Human Right: Why Free Speech is Everything (MIT Press), among other books, and has published over 100 articles and has been featured in radio and television and other media around the world. His new book is Coming Clean: The Rise of Critical Theory and the Future of the Left.

11 Aug 1h

Traditional religion in the United States has suffered huge losses in recent decades. The number of Americans identifying as “not religious” has increased remarkably. Religious affiliation, service attendance, and belief in God have declined. More and more people claim to be “spiritual but not religious.” Religious organizations have been reeling from revelations of sexual and financial scandals and cover-ups. Public trust in “organized religion” has declined significantly. Crucially, these religious losses are concentrated among younger generations. This means that, barring unlikely religious revivals among youth, the losses will continue and accelerate in time, as less-religious younger Americans replace older more-religious ones and increasingly fewer American children are raised by religious parents. All this is clear. But what is less clear is exactly why this is happening. We know a lot more about the fact that traditional American religion has declined than we do about why this is so. Christian Smith is the William R. Kenan, Jr. Professor of Sociology and Founding Director of the Center for the Study of Religion and Society at the University of Notre Dame. Smith is well known for his research focused on religion, adolescents and emerging adults, and social theory. He has written many books, including Divided by Faith, Soul Searching, and Moral, Believing Animals. His new book is Why Religion Went Obsolete: The Demise of Traditional Faith in America.

5 Aug 1h 21min

In this episode, Michael Shermer speaks with historian Sophia Rosenfeld about how modern notions of personal choice—from Amazon shopping to Tinder swipes—emerged from centuries of cultural, religious, political, and economic transformation. Was there ever a time when choice wasn’t synonymous with freedom? Why were early ideas of “common sense” and “free will” so limited? And what happens when choice itself becomes overwhelming? From Enlightenment ideals to the sexual revolution and the abortion debate, Rosenfeld traces how our expanding range of options—and the meaning we attach to them—has shaped everything from our romantic lives to our political systems. A revealing look at the hidden history of freedom in a world that sometimes offers too much. Sophia Rosenfeld is Professor of History at the University of Pennsylvania. Her new book is The Age of Choice: A History of Freedom in Modern Life.

29 Juli 1h 26min

What can a lifetime of scientific discovery teach us about the universe—and ourselves? In this wide-ranging conversation, Michael Shermer sits down with Lord Martin Rees, renowned cosmologist, astrophysicist, and former Astronomer Royal, to reflect on the forces that shape scientific success, from personal luck to cultural context. Rees shares insights on the mysteries of cosmology, the search for extraterrestrial life, and the paradoxes that still puzzle humanity. Rees also shares intimate reflections on his friend and Cambridge colleague Stephen Hawking, thoughts on Fermi’s Paradox, and why some truths may forever lie beyond human comprehension. The discussion also turns toward urgent global issues: the promise and peril of AI, ethical dilemmas in a rapidly advancing world, and how religion and terrorism could shape our future.

22 Juli 1h 5min

When you are faced with a decision, do you consider the best outcome, or do you consider your deepest values about which actions are appropriate? Steven Sloman contrasts these two primary strategies for making decisions: consequentialism or prioritizing one’s sacred values. He argues that, while both modes of decision making are necessary tools for a good decision maker, people err by deploying sacred values more often than they should, especially when it comes to sociopolitical issues. As a result, we oversimplify, grow disgusted and angry, and act in ways that contribute to social polarization. Drawing on historical and current examples of the two decision-making strategies in action, Sloman provides a thorough overview of the psychology of decision making, including work on judgment, conscious and unconscious decision-making processes, the roles of emotion, and even an analysis of habit and addiction. Steven Sloman has taught at Brown University since 1992. He is the author of Causal Models and a coauthor of The Knowledge Illusion (with Phil Fernbach). His new book is The Cost of Conviction: How Our Deepest Values Lead Us Astray.

15 Juli 1h 18min

Michael Shermer in conversation with Debra Soh at FreedomFest 2025 in Palm Springs, CA. Video courtesy of FreedomFest. Additional FreedomFest videos can be viewed on CiVL.

14 Juli 19min

Drawing from intensive on-the-ground reporting in Israel, Gaza, and Lebanon, Douglas Murray places the latest violence in its proper historical context. He takes listeners on a harrowing journey through the aftermath of the October 7 massacre, piecing together the exclusive accounts from victims, survivors, and even the terrorists responsible for the atrocities. Douglas Murray is a bestselling author and journalist. His books include the Sunday Times number-one bestsellers The War on the West: How to Prevail in the Age of Unreason; The Strange Death of Europe: Immigration, Identity and Islam; and The Madness of Crowds: Gender, Race and Identity. He has been Associate Editor and regular writer at The Spectator since 2012, and contributes to other publications, including the Wall Street Journal, The Times, the Sunday Times, the Sun, the Mail on Sunday and the New York Post. A regular guest on broadcast news channels, he has also spoken at numerous universities, parliaments, and the White House. His new book is On Democracies and Death Cults.

8 Juli 1h 11min

Do any of us really care about truth when it comes to politics? Should we? In a world of big lies, denialism, and conspiracy theories, democracies are experiencing two interlocked crises: a loss of confidence in democracy itself and the growing sense among many that politics is only about power—not truth. In his new book, Michael Patrick Lynch argues that truth not only can—but must—matter in politics. He shows why truth is an essential democratic value—a value we need to sustain our democratic way of life—and how it can be strengthened. Despite evidence that people are rarely motivated by truth when it comes to politics, Lynch argues that this isn’t inevitable. Contrary to the belief of many, political beliefs can be true or false. But if democracy is to continue to be a space of reason and not just an arena of power, we must build a better infrastructure of knowledge, including stronger schools and media, and renew our commitment to science and history. Michael Patrick Lynch is Provost Professor of the Humanities and Board of Trustees Distinguished Professor of Philosophy at the University of Connecticut. Lynch is the author or editor of ten books, including Know-it-All Society, The Internet of Us, Truth as One and Many, and the New York TimesSunday Book Review Editor’s pick, True to Life. He has spoken at TED and SXSW. In 2019 he was awarded The George Orwell Award, which recognizes writers who have made outstanding contributions to the critical analysis of public discourse. His new book is On Truth in Politics: Why Democracy Demands It.

1 Juli 1h 8min