Part 11 - Lierre Keith on the Moral, Nutritional, and Environmental Superiority of Eating Meat

Welcome back everyone, I'm Brian Sanders and I quit my job and have dedicated my life to the investigation of nutrition and lifelong health. I'm creating the feature length documentary Food Lies, this podcast, and a health technology company here in Los Angeles with a doctor and 2 other partners. Today my guest is Dr. David Klurfeld, which is a quite a treat. This is his first podcast appearance and had to get special clearance to be able to participate. He couldn't talk about certain things because he's the National Program Leader for Human Nutrition in the Agricultural Research Service of the USDA since 2004. He was also on the working group of the World Health Organization that decided meat causes cancer in 2015. I won't leave you guessing - he was very opposed to it and called it "the most frustrating professional experience of his life." He's accumulated a vast amount of knowledge over his 40 years researching nutrition and dietary factors in cardiovascular diseases and cancer. He wrote an amazing peer-reviewed article defending meat titled "what is the role of meat in a healthy diet" which I linked to in the show notes. https://academic.oup.com/af/article/8/3/5/5048762 He's not going to support a fully carnivorous diet, but certainly sees past the bogus vegan propaganda Speaking of support - PLEASE support Food Lies on Indiegogo. Thanks for everything so far. The campaign just ended but Indiegogo allows us to keep funding because we hit our baseline goal. We need a bit more help to hit the real goal, however. Pre-order a copy of the film or check out some of the other perks. Also, this podcast has a website that I have barely even mentioned. Check out peak-human.com for all episodes and detailed show notes. A little more about Dr. Klurfeld before we start: He is responsible for the scientific direction of the intramural human nutrition research conducted by USDA laboratories. He has published more than 200 peer-reviewed articles and book chapters. He was Editor-in-Chief of the Journal of the American College of Nutrition for 6 years and is currently Associate Editor of the American Journal for Clinical Nutrition. He is also a member of National Institute for Diabetes, Digestive and Kidney Diseases Advisory Council. Let's just say he's done his homework… and still enjoys a good steak… here he is! Show Notes Dr. David Klurfeld focuses his research on the 3 macronutrients and their effect on health on chronic disease - specifically breast and colon cancer People debate on how much what we eat affects diet and disease A paper published tries to stick all of cardiovascular disease precisely on 10 factors https://jamanetwork.com/data/Journals/JAMA/936095/joi170008f1.png Full article: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2608221 David and I spoke earlier and are on the same page - there's no one-size-fits-all solution for how to eat, and nobody should pretend they have all the answers. There's a framework and some general guidelines, however, that people should be aware of (if this isn't already abundantly clear, this is the goal of the Food Lies film They have high salt as #1 factor of "cardiometabolic mortality attributable to dietary habits" and #2 being "low intake of nuts and seeds" There's no evidence to support these specific quantities like amount of PUFAs Residual confounding is a big problem that's not really addressed The thing that meat consumption correlates with most is not living a healthy life and ignoring doctor's recommendations. Smoking, not exercising, etc. Eating meat made us human - why would it be killing us? Dr. David Klurfeld: Red meat is somehow blamed for a multitude of varying diseases and cancers. Imagine if one medication was purported to cure all of these disparate things? It's just not plausible You can get half your daily requirement of protein in just 3.5 ounces of meat Dr. David Klurfeld: there are 8 essential amino acids which are in animal foods but absent in all plant foods We should get the best of both worlds and eat an omnivorous diet We don't know exactly what our ancestors ate but they sure didn't have international trade of peaches and didn't have farms. We chased animals He's done a lot of research on fiber and therefore not that hot on the carnivore diet Even though there's no requirement for fiber in our guidelines, he believes we have more science now He believes if you don't eat fiber in your diet, your body will eat away the good mucus membrane in your intestinal walls I ask about people or populations on long term carnivore diets - connective tissue in animals feed gut intestines like fiber does He also says the lifetime risk of colon cancer is only 5 out 100 - so we'd have to study hundreds of thousands of people for a long period of time to get meaningful data - we just don't know the effects He's like to see dietary guidelines have a grade for the level of evidence After all the decades of research and gazillions of dollars he still can't say anything with any level of certainty about what you can eat to get or not get cancer Processed meat is said to increase risk of cancer by 1.2 while cigarettes are 10 to 30 times the risk You don't know if it's real risk or noise in the system at these very low levels like 1.1 and 1.2 He talks about studies they do which are pretty controlled with meals handed out and weighed in the lab - way better than these bogus food questionnaires People can't remember what they ate over the course of the whole year Tylervegan.com has a graphing tool for correlations. He made a graph showing the correlation between per capita consumption of beef and deaths by lightning that are correlated by almost 90% - this stuff CAN'T show causation He actually appeared in the plant based film Forks Over Knives where they tried to get him with a gotcha moment and make it seem like the meat industry is funding them and they are biased Dr. David Klurfeld says the USDA is a giant organization with 90k employees and many different departments - they don't influence each other though when it comes to studies. He is 100% certain about that He's seen vegetarians on these committees who want everyone to be vegetarian, but never meat eaters who want everyone to eat meat He believes being a vegetarian is a conflict of interest on these committees He was on the World Health Organization working group to decide if meat causes cancer in 2015 with a bunch of vegetarians and vegans and says it was the most frustrating professional experience of his life There were 22 scientists - half of which were epidemiologists They claimed they used 800 studies but they actually only used 18 There was a group of people that were strongly against the vote He thinks a number of the people made up their minds before they even arrived National Cancer Institute study with 900 people split into 2 groups who had an intestinal polyp removed on a colonoscopy. One group told to eat whatever they want, one group was assigned a "healthy" diet low in red meat and processed meat, high in fruits, vegetables, and whole grains. 3 years later the risk to get a 2nd polyp was exactly the same in both groups. The emission of red and processed meats did nothing. Then came the Women's Health Initiative - largest nutrition study in history. 9 years of a low fat diet compared to a control - again, no difference in risk for colon cancer So they threw out the 2 studies that were actually scientifically controlled on humans, none of the animal studies showed any problem with meat, and they're left with epidemiology and mechanistic studies they CANNOT show causation One of the members of the working group did a study feeding mice bacon and also an agent to induce cancer and actually found the bacon diet reduced precancerous lesions! They relied on one study that fed mice blood sausage at 3 times the normal dose of protein and the diet had a calcium deficiency - only then was The report on that 2015 decision finally came out this summer and he has no idea why or if they omitted those studies he brought up He mentioned to a staff member of the WHO that he thought people on the working group should declare that they are a vegetarian as a conflict of interest - she laughed and said she was a vegetarian and they changed the subject Being a vegetarian, in his view, is far more of a conflict of interest than who funds you - it's a more deep-seated belief He estimates ¼ to ⅓ of the committee making the decision against red meat were vegetarians His journal article "The role of meat in a healthy diet" https://academic.oup.com/af/article/8/3/5/5048762 Since the only used observational studies, it should only be suggestive that they should look into it more, certainly not causal In other fields of study this is the case. Nutrition is somehow held to different and much looser standards Nutrition researchers with a bias think they're saving the world and push this information without solid evidence, just their beliefs and some observations People have different responses to whole grains and refined grains - there's no way to tell. So many factors from gut bacteria to genetics It's impossible to give everyone in the country personalized tests and recommendations. Personalized nutrition is the future though. What can we do now knowing this? His personal nutrition ideas are 1) eat a variety of foods, 2) don't eat too much of any one food, 3) enjoy what you eat He mentions nutrient density - Americans eat an enormous amount of calories from non-nutrient dense foods packed with white flour plus sugar and fat Eating out used to be a once per week treat, now it's almost every meal Soda used to be a 7oz bottle as a treat - now people are luggin home multiple 2 liters to have on hand at all times We started getting obese when we gave out the dietary guidelines - the problem was we said eat less fat so carbohydrates got a free pass He thinks we are on a bounce back from the low fat thing and it's not correct to say carbs are bad Unless you have high blood pressure you don't have to go on a low salt diet Salt is essential and fine - the problem is processed foods usually have too much salt so we think it's a problem, but it's actually the processed food For all vitamins and minerals - it's dose dependent "The dose makes the poison" - toxicologists have known this for 500 years With nutrition it's all or nothing, though All the studies we have showing fruits and vegetables are good for us are from people eating conventionally raised produce - not organic He says half the fruits and vegetables we eat have no pesticide residue on them at all - the USDA tests thousands and thousands of samples each year Here's the latest available (2016) report https://www.ams.usda.gov/sites/default/files/media/2016PDPAnnualSummary.pdf.pdf He's right - it says only 0.46% of samples exceeded the safe levels The permissible levels have built in margins of safety He says heart attack rates are way down and cancer is up due to us living longer (I beg to differ) Commercial fryers can have oxidized PUFAs We need a more balanced Omega 3 to Omega 6 ratio We should be cooking more at home - no profit for big food manufacturers however What about carcinogens in meat from burning or charring? I say we have been cooking meat for 2 million years and have developed mechanisms to deal with this acute stressor just like the small toxins in plants The animal studies pointing to problems in animals had 1000 times the carcinogens as in a well done piece of meat (that I would never cook anyway…) Why would we blame meat, that we've been eating for all of human history, for our modern diseases Elderly people need adequate protein and ground beef would be preferable to cottage cheese or tofu because all of the great micronutrients and total nutrient profile It's insane that what many people today consider a "healthy diet" is one that avoids red meat He did the first study showing benefits of red wine back in the 80s Future of nutrition research is going to be more personalized Companies are selling a bunch of yogurt - we have no idea if those help your gut bacteria or not Maybe we'll have 10-20 "buckets" to put people in based on their physiology that will give them an ideal nutritional approach It's all about developing a healthy pattern of eating Preorder the film here: http://indiegogo.com/projects/food-lies-post Film site: http://FoodLies.org YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/FoodLies Follow along: http://twitter.com/FoodLiesOrg http://instagram.com/food.lies http://facebook.com/FoodLiesOrg Theme music by https://kylewardmusic.com/

14 Nov 20181h 16min

Today I had the pleasure of talking to celebrity chef, filmmaker, and all around great guy, Pete Evans. He co-hosts the #1 show in Australia, My Kitchen Rules which is in its 10th season and is shown in 160 countries. He's written a ton of books and cookbooks, he's created the show The Paleo Way, and has a great podcast called Recipes For Life. You may know him from the documentary The Magic Pill, which everyone listening has probably already seen on Netflix. He's an amazing, positive force in Australia and the world, and it may not be apparent from our brief talk. We only had an hour so I'm going to have him on again because there's so much more to get into. I'll get a better recording situation next time. You'll notice the quality wasn't so great due to the recording service we were forced to use. A lot to enjoy in this episode though - he brings up some really creepy stuff about the dietitians association of Australia colluding to discredit and silence himself and a prominent doctor who advocate for people to lower sugar in their diet. Absurd, but true. These are the last few days you can pre-order the Food Lies film on Indiegogo. We really need your help to get this finished. We're not taking any outside funding and have so far used much of our own time, money, and resources. It's really coming out fantastic, and I can't wait to share it with the world. Pre-ordering is the only way to have your own copy and share it with family and friends and you'll get it a couple months early. It's also the best way to show your support for this podcast and getting this information out there. I really appreciate all the support so far and can't thank this awesome community enough. Click through the link in the show notes on your podcast app, at peak-human.com, at FoodLies.org, or search for it on Indiegogo.com Thanks and please enjoy my talk with Pete Evans. http://indiegogo.com/projects/food-lies-post Show Notes Find out more about Pete Evans https://peteevans.com His TV show My Kitchen Rules https://mkr.7plus.com.au His series The Paleo Way https://peteevans.com/initiatives/the-paleo-way/ He self funded The Magic Pill and The Paleo Way and executive produced it Got a distributor and it went nowhere… He realized he had a lot of great content and a documentary was a better format for this valuable information His director Rob Tate came in huge Hope For Health - benefitting the Australian Aboriginals https://www.hopeforhealth.com.au Why Warriors Lay Down and Die http://www.whywarriors.com.au/services/why-warriors-lie-down-and-die/ He brings up Weston A. Price - has he been mentioned every episode? The power of an ancestral diet is undeniable - changes unfolded in real time on film as people got off their diabetes medication and got healthier The trial of Professor Tim Noakes (listen to Prof. Noakes in episode 3) was going on at the same time so they decided to film that as well Dr. Gary Fettke has also been silenced by the dieticians in Australia. He's an orthopedic surgeon who cuts off limbs due to diabetes yet he was silenced for telling patients to avoid sugar Had great stories from Nina Teicholz, Joel Salatin, and Lierre Keith (all friends of Food Lies film/this podcast) Original cut of Magic Pill was more controversial and inflammatory but Pete wasn't comfortable with that The president of the Australian Medical Association called it a dangerous film and tried to get it taken off of Netflix. He's now been replaced… He's working with Dr. gary Fettke to get the dietary guidelines changed in Australia Dr. Gary Fettke got ahold of some internal files showing Dietitians Association colluding with multinational food organizations to have himself, Pete, and other members of the paleo community silenced or discredited The more films and information about ancestral eating, the better Carnivore movement - Shawn Baker and Mikhaila Peterson - it's good to fight against the vegan propaganda and prove meat isn't harmful, but in fact beneficial Pete put up a $1 million bet if those dietitians can prove that the grass fed, grass finished steak and vegetables he served his family for dinner can be proven to be harmful As a chef, why would you use the blandest foods in your cooking? The pasta, the bread, the plain starches that add no nutritional value or flavor. Instead you can use the most nutrient dense and delicious foods possible - all the low carb foods Nora Gedgaudas and her life changing book for Pete, Primal Body Primal Mind https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/9571633-primal-body-primal-mind They went on a speaking tour together over the course of 2 years Food should be something you can eat straight from nature, full of nutrients and flavor. That is not wheat and grains The problem is we are taking bland foods devoid of nutrients (refined carbs) and adding fake flavors to them which is tricking us into overeating and not getting adequate nutrition The Dorito Effect https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/22609354-the-dorito-effect From a restaurant's point of view, the best thing for someone to order is the pasta because there's such a high profit margin Cooking your own grass fed meat, wild caught seafood, and organic vegetables is very affordable and can be cheaper if you make a little effort Don't wait until your health fails to start eating correctly What if there was a generation of young people who grew up thriving their entire lives on a good diet? How can we implement a change even in the school system where kids are taught what to eat and how to cook? Pete Evans says the dietary guidelines need to be changed After a birthday party the kids leave with a a bag of candy - what a bizarre tradition Pete tells a very good story about his daughters when they were younger We wrap things up with some positive messages and a plan to continue the conversation when there's more time at a later date Preorder the film here: http://indiegogo.com/projects/food-lies-post Film site: http://FoodLies.org YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/FoodLies Sapien Movement: http://SapienMovement.com Follow along: http://twitter.com/FoodLiesOrg http://instagram.com/food.lies http://facebook.com/FoodLiesOrg Theme music by https://kylewardmusic.com/

7 Nov 20181h 1min

Marty Kendall is an engineer, a speaker, and a writer. He's analyzed a bunch of data and built some cool, free technology. He's also brought a lot of people together who are working on cutting edge, practical information. He runs a group where some of the smartest people in nutrition are interacting daily, sharing information and studies and clinical experience. This includes Dr. Ted Naiman who was my first guest and who we bring up a few times in this episode. These are not anti-carb people, they aren't dogmatic, they don't let other interests or beliefs enter the picture. They're after information and truth and are working towards healing people and changing lives. They're coming at this from all sides and from all over the world. Some are doing the research, some are just interpreting it and thinking about it from new angles. Ted is in the clinic daily, putting it into practice and reversing diabetes. Marty is building tools and thinking about it from his engineering perspective. I love people who think about it this way - I'm like a broken record, because I'm an engineer too. We need to stop thinking that only a doctor can be an expert on nutrition. Why would they be? They have extremely little or no nutrition specific training. They are brilliant when it comes to a million other things, but they aren't the end-all be-all of nutrition They can be though. But so can an engineer who dedicates years of their life to researching a topic. Not everyone who does this will be smart or correct, but some are. These are the people I get on the podcast. Ivor Cummins, Tucker Goodrich, Gabor Erdosi, Dave Feldman soon, and now Marty Kendall. There's many more as well, and I'll continue to find them. Enough of my ranting - just a quick word on the Food Lies documentary. It's going really well and being pushed forward daily. I just booked our trip to Maryland to film with Dr. Bill Schindler. Go back to listen to that episode if you missed it. There's only about 11 days left on the Indiegogo.com crowdfunding page. Please go there to preorder the film. There's a link in the show notes in your podcast app and on peak-human.com. You also can search for Food Lies on Indiegogo or go to FoodLies.org to learn more. Now please take a listen to Marty and I talk about my favorite topic - nutrient density. http://indiegogo.com/projects/food-lies-post Show Notes Marty Kendall runs the great site http://optimisingnutrition.com and the facebook group https://www.facebook.com/groups/1419823171384689/ Ted Naiman, Robb Wolf, Luis Villasenor, and Tyler Cartwright (ketogains) all collaborate with him to figure this nutrition stuff out What is nutrient density? Matt Lalonde's presentation at AHS 2012 https://youtu.be/HwbY12qZcF4 Cronometer is a great app to track food and nutrients https://cronometer.com Nutrient dense foods are less insulinogenic, more satiating, and less energy dense Try to quantify things because nutrition is confusing enough I disagree with Joel Fuhrman's nutrient density scoring system His version of nutrient density is variable and is based on what you personally aren't getting enough of If you're getting enough micronutrients, you're very likely to be getting all the protein you need Can't make a perfect diet because too many factors - season, cost, preference, etc. Some of the most nutrient dense and satiating foods are leafy greens, fish eggs, seafood, liver We've always sought after nutritious foods throughout history, with or without knowing it He mentions my recent episode with Tucker Goodrich https://www.peak-human.com/home/tucker-goodrich-on-vegetable-oils-being-at-the-heart-of-modern-disease on seed oils and how unnatural and energy dense they are Modern foods are engineered to trick us - they tastes delicious, but have no nutrition The book The Dorito Effect chronicles this https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/22609354-the-dorito-effect?from_search=true It's a cliche for a reason - eat real foods Trying to formulate a low insulin diet for his wife with type 1 diabetes that is also nutrient dense What are the most nutrient dense foods? Amazing benefits of seafood Modern food is dog food - stuffed with cheap grains and vegetable oils with huge profit margins for big food manufacturers at the expense of the consumer's health Satiety Used 587,000 day worth of publicly available food data from MyFitnessPal to do some data crunching Fed state, glucagon, and type 1 diabetes closed system insulin pump How to eat less and manage hunger? Holt satiety study in 1995 https://www.researchgate.net/publication/15701207_A_Satiety_Index_of_common_foods Carbs and fat together gives you the highest calorie intake HIs in-depth article on satiety https://optimisingnutrition.com/2018/10/09/calculating-satiety/ They have an app that helps you only by satiating foods in the grocery store Cian Foley has a book called Don't Eat for Winter https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/34616334-don-t-eat-for-winter?from_search=true Protein leverage hypothesis Nutrient leverage hypothesis Crops losing nutrition - USDA data shows nutrients going down as obesity goes up right at the point where Big Agriculture begins Vitamin A, B12, and protein levels dropped as we avoided animal foods We need mixed farming methods that include ruminants that put nutrients back in the soil Graph of highest and lowest intakes of food and macro ratios https://twitter.com/tednaiman/status/977992445387448320 Thermic Effect of Food (TEF) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specific_dynamic_action Unifying Theory of Nutrition Potato hack diet https://visualimpactfitness.com/potato-hack-for-rapid-fat-loss/ Holt study from 1995 plain baked potato had the most perceived satiety The potato hack and a juice fast may work temporarily but they are ill-advised Best thing to do is eat a nutrient dense diet - my view is that if you can gradually adjust your lifestyle and preferences towards this you never worry about counting calories or being hungry Marty notes the advantages of tracking and being mindful for many people Building positive habits around healthy choices when shopping or eating Watercress is at the top of his satiety and nutrient density data I'm developing a practical version of nutrient density and satiety focused foods that people can look at and make meal choices from it If we want to eat like (some) our ancestors (for some periods of history) and eat a carnivore diet, you need to actually eat like them by eating nose to tail Ideas on how our ancestors eating whole foods diets had well-formed jaws, wide dental arches, and great dental health (along with amazing health in general) His trip to Vanuatu and their amazing tasting, fresh food that they can't really afford (or maybe prefer) so they sell it and then buy oreos and vegetable oil Dr. Gary Fettke has to go over there and amputate limbs due to the new epidemic of diabetes from these western foods He personally witnessed the striking difference between the people eating the modern foods and the isolated people eating the native whole foods - the isolated people had amazing teeth, well-formed jaws, and perfect health, while the ones in the main city were having a ton of problems Carbohydrate-insulin model of diabesity and the adipose centric model - see the graphic and the full article here https://optimisingnutrition.com/2018/05/03/ted-naimans-dam-fat-storage-insulinographic-explained/ Don't overeat energy Can do ok on a bivalve plant based diet - still getting nutrient dense animal foods Personal fat threshold We can store a limited amount of protein and carbohydrate, but almost unlimited fat Professor Roy Taylor study - normal weight individuals with type 2 diabetes https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25515001 Thin on the Outside, Fat on the Inside (TOFI) - how do they get like this? One more description of the dam analogy (everyone should check out the full article linked above) Bolus vs. basal insulin in type 1 diabetics - why a low carb diet is good How to keep insulin in check in general - strength training, some HIIT His Nutrient Optimizer app and Never Hungry Diet app - free tools to help you eat more nutrient dense foods, fill in gaps in micronutrients you are lacking, and shop for more satiating foods while in the store https://nutrientoptimiser.com All of diet is so context specific, you can't recommend just one way of eating He's off to Low Carb Down Under to do a presentation on Satiety Preorder the film here: http://indiegogo.com/projects/food-lies-post Film site: http://FoodLies.org YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/FoodLies Sapien Movement: http://SapienMovement.com Follow along: http://twitter.com/FoodLiesOrg http://instagram.com/food.lies http://facebook.com/FoodLiesOrg Theme music by https://kylewardmusic.com/

1 Nov 20181h 11min

Gabor is a food scientist with a masters in molecular biology. He lives in Hungary and is one of these engineers slash scientists who I love talking to who look at nutrition differently. He has a very unique perspective because he works for a big food manufacturer that makes sugary syrups that he believes are harmful. It's rare point of view. He's spends almost all of his free time researching this stuff to help people understand how bad these processed foods actually are. He has a large community on facebook where he shares and discusses this information. He also has some great presentations he's done you can find online. We recorded past midnight and I was losing steam at the end and didn't continue the conversation much. He was talking about a really interesting topic though - the adipose centric model of diabetes. For a long time many people have been talking about the insulin-carbohydrate model of diabetes. There's a lot to this subject and we'll get more into it in the coming weeks. I have already recorded an episode covering more of this that will come out next week. It's basically flipping our thoughts of insulin resistance around. The problems occur when you eat more than your personal fat threshold can take - whether it be carbs, fat, or protein. So the problem is your adipose tissue can't properly store all the lipids. People start becoming insulin resistant because of their obesity (or overstuffed and inflamed fat cells), instead of becoming obese from the insulin resistance. This may be super boring and esoteric to some, but for others it will be super interesting. I personally am very into it. There's a couple weeks left to support the Food Lies film on Indiegogo. Thanks so much - we couldn't do it without you. Listener and crowd support is the only thing powering this film and podcast right now, so I really appreciate it. Now please listen to the wise words of Gabor Erdosi. http://indiegogo.com/projects/food-lies-post Show Notes Gabor is a food scientist with a masters in molecular biology calling in from Hungary He works for a big food manufacturer making sugary syrups Asked to give a presentation on food processing and the short term metabolic effects https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rcfvRGZsDs Long term negative effects would have included seed oils but they only gave him 35 minutes People says processed carbs are bad but nobody asks why or how He doesn't trust textbooks so he goes to original sources and studies He studied the digestive system, physiology, and mechanisms of how food is digested and the hormone responses If we eat evolutionary appropriate foods like meat, tubers, and berries, for example, the sensors in our small intestine and resulting hormone signaling is fine If we eat flour and ground starches it's very different and not fine But humans have been processing food for all of history? Looks at this with cooking of food vs. raw food, pre-digesting proteins Studies looking at eating a whole apple and a blended apple with all it's pulp (not just the juice which would be different) - more glucose and insulin response to blended apple THings aren't the same once you break down the structure of the plant Questioning nutrition labels because of this After this surge of glucose, insulin dips below baseline a couple hours later and you become hypoglycemic. And then hungry. Studies show this is also when self-reported satiety kicks in As well as ghrelin surge (which is the hunger signaling hormone) Glycemic index and glycemic load can be thought of proxies for how processed something is or "lacking plant structure" This is why we get inconsistent studies when we use observational data using glycemic index or load as a proxy Fiber is a better indicator because usually these people aren't adding back in fiber - it means they are eating whole foods Also if you destroy the plant structure by processing then add fiber back in it's not as good - you already destroyed the structure But some fiber is good that swell when you add them back because they increase the volume and slow the gastric emptying Simple message is it's better to just eat plant foods in their whole form He also says it's safer to just eat animal foods - protein and fat - that don't have these problems when processed Better to eat carbs at the end of the meal Better to eat slowly Rodent studies show they get more obese when they grind the normal chow Rodent studies are poorly done in general because the chow they use is highly processed with no real food ingredients Their synthetic diet also causes dysbiosis in their large intestine Gut permeability and small intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO), etc. in humans Sometimes the body needs a small and purposeful inflammation In inflammatory disease it's a chronic inflammation, not acute He does almost all animal foods plus some fruit because of his condition People don't need to cut out all carbs, but it would be smart to do an elimination diet and add foods back in gradually to see what might be causing problems Not everyone needs to do low carb, some report doing very low fat helps type 2 diabetes This greatly reduces the need for insulin which is a partitioning fuel so you can still be pretty healthy even if you're taking in a lot of carbs Needs to be really low though - less than 10% - so very few people can actually pull this off He can't subsist on leaves and flowers and stalks, no thanks Killer combo of fat plus carbohydrate - what's the mechanism? Fat and protein together take longer to digest, don't cause the same big jump in hormonal release, and stimulate the receptors in the lower intestine as well - much more balanced GIP and GLP-1 are incretins - they stimulate your pancreas to release hormones You create an insulin and glucagon imbalance if you stimulate these hormones in an unbalanced way Fasted and fed state and metabolic regulation Sweet spot is to eat 1-3 meals per day Total insulin response lower with bigger meals Studies say best to limit your eating window to max 10 hours Autophagy and letting your body rest Microbiome - all the rage these days Study on mostly plant based diet and carnivore diet and microbiota We still don't know how the microbiome works - just that your diet greatly affects it Rat studies aren't conclusive for humans Problems with how we treat diabetes today - just the symptom, not underlying problem Type 2 diabetes is actually an adipose problem - can't store lipids correctly More gut permeability and inflammation from refined foods The beer belly and visceral fat Tying together mechanisms of fatty liver from alcoholics and non-alcoholic sources Caveman check for foods: animals, berries, tubers, etc., not a wheat field Out of season fruit study with rats - not good to eat out of season it seems The answer to health is to reject the modern processed foods - both vegetarian/pecatarian and carnivore/keto/paleo people are doing that He's going to be doing some more work with organizations soon to spread his learnings He has a closed Facebook group that is really active and interesting called Lower Insulin https://www.facebook.com/groups/198981013851366/ Preorder the film here: http://indiegogo.com/projects/food-lies-post Film site: http://FoodLies.org YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/FoodLies Sapien Movement: http://SapienMovement.com Follow along: http://twitter.com/FoodLiesOrg http://instagram.com/food.lies http://facebook.com/FoodLiesOrg Theme music by https://kylewardmusic.com/

24 Okt 20181h 19min

Tucker Goodrich is a Wall Street tech extraordinaire and nutrition science enthusiast. After doctors and the healthcare system let him down in severe and avoidable ways, he took his health into his own hands and had amazing results. He's done a ton of research on Omega 6 fatty acids otherwise known as seed oils otherwise known as vegetable oils previously known as an industrial waste product before we started feeding them to humans. He makes a compelling case for them being a major factor in many, if not all, modern diseases. You'll definitely not want to be eating fast food fries cooked in old, rancid vegetable oils after this episode. The sunburn stuff at the end is legit. I won't spoil it, but just know Robb Wolf just backed this up on his podcast with science. There is a mechanism there that makes total sense and I've seen it anecdotally as well. We seem to have stalled out with the Food Lies film Indiegogo campaign. Please keep supporting us there. This documentary and podcast is all done by support of people like you. We're not taking any outside money other than from my own pocket to fund this. Thanks so much, I sincerely appreciate it. http://indiegogo.com/projects/food-lies-post Show Notes Works on Wall Street and developed software that deals with trillions of dollars of assets Had a stroke-like event at age 38 Then got acute diverticulitis Got a colon resection and followed "healthy" diet and doctor's advice and was still sick He called himself "Mr. Whole Wheat" - stopped eating sugar when he was 19 so that wasn't it 16 years of IBS… finally found Stephan Guyenet's blog http://stephanguyenet.com Started fixing himself in 2 days using dietary change His surgery was probably unnecessary He is well connected to Daniel Lieberman and The Story of the Human Body Diseases of civilization Agriculture allowed us to build cities, paved the way for written language to keep track of grains, etc. We over-hunted all the very large animals From eating grains we got shorter, got cavities, lesions on bones, all while our population exploded We used to be more robust and have bigger brains Diabetes used to be super rare - we have medical records of this Cancer a huge problem in Germany Heart disease in England Diseases went around the world as eating patterns went around the world We even give other species diabetes and our diseases when we feed them our foods - monkeys, dogs, cats - even racoons who eat human garbage Weston A. Price needs to be mentioned for his great work Realization came at the salad bar with the dressings Cut all vegetable oils and cured himself Cut out carbs and processed foods and exercised less and lost tons of weight Started doing more research - lots of people said seed oils are bad, but nobody really explained the mechanism back then Maybe the largest epidemiological study ever on saturated fat in India looking at the northern and southern populations The south who ate like our food pyramid suggests had 7-15 times the heart disease rate How about England? Heart disease skyrocketed with the intro of seed oils Okinawa is a Blue Zone - place where people live abnormally long First fast food restaurant opened in Okinawa Okinawa went from the longest lifespan in Japan to the shortest Seed oil consumption tracks modern disease all over the world These cultures were eating a high carb diet so it's likely not the carbs - the carb consumption actually went down Japanese and chinese are some of the shortest populations and they subsist on high carb, low meat diet. We know we got shorter when agriculture was invented. We know when we lower carb intake and up meat intake populations get taller Grains are a "fallback food" It's funny that rich people in Santa Monica purposely try to live in the Failed Environment Metabolic State while thinking they're morally superior to us Tarahumara Indians eat this way - their children have a malnutrition rate of 80% Carbohydrate is a cofactor. 5 key studies: rats and diabetes & heart failure; (Ghosh 2004); LA and obesity (Alvheim 2012) Lyon Diet Heart (De Lorgeril 1994); Seed oils and insulin resistance in India (Nigam 2014); Seed oils and NAFLD, (Maciejewska 2015) Lyon heart study - lowered Omega 6 and raised Omega 3 to improve heart attack risk of repeat by 70% William Lands: "I've studied saturated fat for 50 years and never found a mechanism that it could kill somebody" American Heart Association's "Prudent Diet" proved to be outright harmful to people in this study History of LDL cholesterol and heart disease To make LDL atherogenic omega 6 fats need to be oxidized Researchers found this mechanism before De Lorgeril had success with replacing Omega 6s with olive oil, where he improved heart attack outcomes without knowing the mechanism Researchers prime rats to get cancer and can't do this unless they use omega 6s Western Cancers and the P53 gene mutation Japanese women moving to America breast cancer went up 7 fold Why is there DNA damage present in all western diseases? Mitochondrial dysfunction is a hallmark of all western diseases Avoiding heated seed oils is not good enough - damage still happens inside cells damaged cardiolipin cause mitochondria to stop working properly and is primarily caused by excess carbohydrates in the diet A lot of disease is teed up by excess carbs but the seed oils are what activate the damage Asian countries and rice consumption Knockout gene and detoxifying seed oils Selenium deficiency in China and glutathione Omega 6 fats combined with glucose causes oxidation and can be seen in a petri dish Women in CHina were getting lung cancer that didn't smoke - turned out it was cooking with seed oils and inhaling the fumes Seed oils break down into one of the same toxins as in cigarette smoke Seed oils used to be an industrial waste product There's no conspiracy theory - they thought these oils were fine. They aren't acutely toxic, it takes years to do damage Everything has a U-shaped curve - too little or too much is bad There's essential fats in dairy and maybe more we don't know about How do vegans temporarily survive? Kitavans Sunburn and diet - how could they possibly be related? His wife with dark skin and his light skin What's the mechanism? His radiation research Evolutionary context for omega 6 causing sunburn (or lack of omega 6 making us able to not get sunburned) Now are omega 3 to omega 6 ratio is a nightmare Giving omega 3 and a better diet to prisoners helped with their behavior Weston Prices studied diet and its effects on troubled youth as well Not everyone needs to cut out wheat, but just know it's effects. Everyone should cut out sugar, refined grains, and seed oils though Gabor Erdosi lecture https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rcfvRGZsDs The amount of physical grinding of starch affects your digestion and health in a negative way Gabor is actually the next podcast guest Japanese people eat high starch but it's in its whole form, not ground People are confused on what healthy even is, so it's hard to be healthy Going to restaurants is not even worth it anymore when you can make things better at home Tucker's blog http://yelling-stop.blogspot.com/ Tucker on Twitter https://twitter.com/TuckerGoodrich Preorder the film here: http://indiegogo.com/projects/food-lies-post Film site: http://FoodLies.org YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/FoodLies Sapien Movement: http://SapienMovement.com Follow along: http://twitter.com/FoodLiesOrg http://instagram.com/food.lies http://facebook.com/FoodLiesOrg Theme music by https://kylewardmusic.com/

17 Okt 20181h 34min

Today we have Craig and Maria Emmerich who have a long history of contributing to the low carb community. They have done a ton of health consulting, speaking, writing of great books and cookbooks, and also built a large community around their blog and facebook. They have a lot of hands-on knowledge and experience working with people and with the ins and outs of implementing a great diet and healthy lifestyle. We got into some interesting details that haven't come up on the podcast before like oxidative priority, being censored by a TV news show, butter chuggers, keto babies, the science of high carb diets, the Failed Environment Metabolic State, keto desserts, and a lot more. I just got back from our film tour when we recorded this, which will definitely be apparent during my frequent mentions of Mark Sisson. He's a great guy and I want to be like him when I am in my mid 60s, running around with 20 years olds playing ultimate frisbee. His book Primal Blueprint got me started with all of this years ago and is a great read. He'll be in the film along with a ton of great doctors and researchers. Please continue to support Food Lies on Indiegogo - we haven't raised enough money to finish the film yet. By pre-ordering a copy or buying the "It's what else you eat, not the meat" T-shirt you are directly helping this film's creation and will be listed in the credits. We're personally matching every dollar that is coming in, but we're still behind. Thank you so much and here's Maria and Craig. http://indiegogo.com/projects/food-lies-post Show Notes: They live in rural Wisconsin and hunt and smoke ribs Halle Berry is a fan of Maria's keto cookbooks They wrote a great book called Keto. https://www.amazon.com/Keto-Complete-Ketogenic-including-Simplified/dp/1628602821 Oxidative priority: your body burns fuels in a specific order which is correlated to how much it can store of each, in reverse order Alcohol burns first, then exogenous ketones, protein, carbohydrate, and lastly fat Becoming fat adapted Many benefits, especially in athletics. Better mitochondrial efficiency Low carb longevity study and how bogus it is Quality of the fats and carbs are of utmost importance Studies show the majority of people lie in self-reported food studies Maria was asked not to talk about restricting cereal on a TV news show who's major sponsor was a cereal company Nutrient density - animal foods far superior but because of the saturated fat and cholesterol they are demonized The sheath of our bones is made up of saturated fat When fat adapted you don't lose muscle or bone mass when fasting Nutrient density!! It's all about the animal products. Plants foods don't hold a candle Obviously animal foods have way more bioavailable protein and nutrients as well People do keto wrong and make fat bombs and put butter in their coffee - you're getting no nutrients and probably too many calories (you can overeat fat on keto) A piece of meat is naturally keto at about 70% fat Gluconeogenesis is a demand driven process If you eat too much protein and your insulin spikes it's because you are insulin resistant If you're insulin resistant, not only do you need to avoid carbs, sugar, and most fruit, but also too much fat with protein To reverse insulin resistance you need to shrink your fat cells so they aren't overstuffed and inflamed Can be skinny and still have diabetes To reverse you just need to get more fuel from your body than your diet Protein sparing modified fast - adequate protein, almost no carb, fat is a lever A lot of time a stall in weight loss is due to dairy consumption The great importance of sleep which even affects insulin resistance Unifying theory of nutrition Why is fat the preferred fuel source? How other diet work. Can a vegan diet work? Their experience with clients Vegans Maria works with trying to do keto are on antidepressants Protein from grains or soy can't stimulate Mtor or muscle building Need complete proteins and amino acids (all found in animal products) Mother's milk is high in cholesterol… so when does it become evil? Men lowering their cholesterol with statins often need Viagra Also, babies are constantly in ketosis for the breastfeeding years The label keto is kind of a fad right now, but the low carb high fat diet is the exact opposite of a fad and what we've been doing some version of it for all of human history Smart vegans understand it's nutritionally inferior and say they wouldn't do it while pregnant Vegan on the show Alone knew he had to eat animal foods to survive Fiber causes a lot of intestinal stress actually and we actually don't even need it Make sure you're getting enough salt - it isn't bad How some people are able to tolerate carbs if they go low fat and whole foods enough It's so hard to eat enough plant matter, vegans are basically just calorie restricting to lose weight or stay thin Ideal diet uses oxidative priority - eliminate a lot of the fuel sources, adequate protein, eat at a deficit without feeling hungry All diets come down to managing appetite Nothing tastes as good as healthy feels - you can have both eating this way Failed Environment Metabolic State Insulin, fat cells, and carb burners How do you execute this in modern society when everything is working against you? Maria made chipotle at home for half the cost and half the time it took for Craig to drive and get the real thing They make 15 racks of ribs at once and put them on the freezer There's a perfect cross-section of foods I love and nutrient density, and it's for a reason. Steak, salmon, eggs, sardines - delicious for a reason How to eat dessert and treats and still be healthy There's some great sweeteners out there other than stevia like Swerve, and erythritol, and monk fruit Their awesome book is called Keto. https://www.amazon.com/Keto-Complete-Ketogenic-including-Simplified/dp/1628602821 Their blog http://mariamindbodyhealth.com Other site http://keto-adapted.com https://twitter.com/MariaEmmerich and https://instagram.com/MariaEmmerich and https://facebook.com/ketoadapted Preorder the film here: http://indiegogo.com/projects/food-lies-post Film site: http://FoodLies.org YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/FoodLies Sapien Movement: http://SapienMovement.com Follow along: http://twitter.com/FoodLiesOrg http://instagram.com/food.lies http://facebook.com/FoodLiesOrg Theme music by https://kylewardmusic.com/

10 Okt 20181h 12min

Today we have a rare in-studio podcast with Mikhaila Peterson. You may have seen here on the news or in articles (where she is being attacked). Her and her dad Jordan Peterson eat an all meat diet which the mainstream media and doctors seem to have a giant problem with. This is just her story, and yes she has specific problems, but I think there's value in hearing this and considering an elimination diet to see how you feel. You can always add back in foods slowly. You never know if you could be on a whole new plane of existence and feel that much more amazing if you eliminate foods that could be giving you problems. Also, I should say that I have no problem with the carnivore diet but believe it should be done from a more nose to tail approach. At least get some liver and bone broth in the mix. Just my 2 cents. Mikhaila came into the studio to film for a little segment of the Food Lies film. We did a relatively short podcast and then did some film-specific stuff. Please support the Food Lies by pre-ordering on Indiegogo. It's the only way this film or even this podcast is possible. I'm keeping this ad-free because, as a podcast listener myself, I hate to interrupt good content with ads. So please know that pre-ordering the film and/or getting the Eat Meat t-shirt is a way of supporting us. http://indiegogo.com/projects/food-lies-post Show notes Mikhaila is in SAPIEN Headquarters live in studio the day before she goes on the Joe Rogan podcast People don't think of diet when they think of stuff like depressions, anxiety, arthritis, etc. when it is likely the first place we should be looking Her story of growing up with terrible health problems that went undiagnosed Had a pretty healthy diet until college Got laughed at by doctors when mom mentioned oranges caused a flare up Then got a rash that pushed it over the edge. Looked into celiac disease She started an elimination diet without knowing anything about food She accidentally started eating an autoimmune disease protocol diet Everything changed when she got pregnant Cut down from meat and salad to just meat Why didn't doctors question what she was eating through all her visits over her life? She had her hip replaced and an ankle replaced as a child She has specific problems, so it's in one way her specific circumstance, but in another, it's representative of many people Slowly getting worse over the years without realizing it. The new norm is 20 pounds overweight Brain health: Depression, anxiety, Alzheimer's, etc. Some people can cheat, but others have to be really strict with their diet Her dad is Jordan Peterson https://jordanbpeterson.com and has his own struggle with physical and mental problems People attack her and her dad and say it's a placebo effect or they are lying, etc. Vegan propaganda Vitamin C and other vitamins, minerals, and bloodwork Adjusting to the all meat diet I had no cravings for sweets after only 2 days on carnivore Should all people try out an elimination diet? Even just cutting sugar and grains can make a world of difference. Also could lose soy and dairy she says All animal based diets and all plant based diets are equally extreme Eating this way is a lot easier and not hard to stick to Stefansson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vilhjalmur_Stefansson Morning sickness could just be eating foods that don't agree with you and your growing baby Pregnant women who crave meat or sardines - your body is telling you something We have the wrong message in America demonizing meat which we know is especially needed during pregnancy Meanwhile Germany has the correct message and has meat vending machines Preorder the film here: http://indiegogo.com/projects/food-lies-post Film site: http://FoodLies.org YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/FoodLies Sapien Movement: http://SapienMovement.com Follow along: http://twitter.com/FoodLiesOrg http://instagram.com/food.lies http://facebook.com/FoodLiesOrg Theme music by https://kylewardmusic.com/

3 Okt 201850min

Dr. Bill Schindler is the director of the Eastern Shore Food Lab at Washington College where he is also an associate professor of archaeology and anthropology. Two years ago he co-hosted the National Geographic show The Great Human Race. He spent the last year abroad continuing his hands-on research and professional development by immersing himself and his family with indigenous and traditional groups around the world to learn about their food and diets. As an experimental archaeologist and primitive technologist his specialties are in recreating technologies of the past to better interpret our ancestral diets. His current focus is learning how to translate the outcomes of that research into something meaningful for modern day diet and health and is working to fuse lessons from our ancestral dietary past with modern culinary arts to create a food system that is relevant, accessible and meaningful to modern Western life. We got into so many interesting things like the development of humans and how it tracked with food technology, drinking blood and milk with pastoral tribes in Africa, eating brains, ancient food preparation and hunting, my favorite topic - nutrient density, and so much more. It was so enlightening talking to him, I'll stop talking now so you can have a listen. I have to mention the Food Lies film. Preorder on Indiegogo to support its creation and this podcast. Thanks! http://indiegogo.com/projects/food-lies-post Show Notes Dr. Bill Schindler is a professor at Washington College in Maryland Director of Eastern Shore Food Lab https://www.washcoll.edu/departments/eastern-shore-food-lab/ His whole life has led up to his career and interests His dad took him into nature and he learned to deal with taking an animal's life even though he didn't enjoy it Also grew up with mom and grandmother in kitchen cooking - realized it was all connected Learned to hunt and make tools as our ancestors did He became what's known as an experimental archeologist Almost every single primitive technology made is related to food. Every tool and invention was based on getting food, processing food, storing food THe realization of the different types of food processing made all the difference Food processing of the past all focused on INCREASING nutrient density All modern food processing focused on money savings, shipping, shelf life, etc. Modern food processing also DECREASES nutrient density Not everything new we do is bad though Dairy is a hot topic. Just because we didn't always consume it or other mammals don't consume it past a certain time in their life, doesn't mean it's not healthy (if you tolerate it) Everything changed 3.4 million years ago when we made the first tool Humans are one of the weakest species on the planet on our own Our bodies and brains were quite small before we created tools to access meat Our digestive systems are actually pretty inefficient. We need to process our food with tools and fire to feed our large brains We have bones from Ethiopia that have butcher marks on them from this time, as well as impact fractures to get bone marrow inside 2 million years ago the invention of fire and some other hunting techniques were monumental for our species Humans started off as scavengers Once we started actually hunting ourselves we had first access to the animals we killed so therefore all the most nutrient dense, choice parts like the organ meats, etc. Results in a huge increase in body and brain size and women catch up in size to men more We mimic other animals in techniques of acquiring and processing foods Our biology isn't set up to eat meat like other carnivores - humans are set up to use tools and technology to consume nutrient dense animal products As we changed our diets, our bodies adapted to it. Homo sapiens wouldn't have made it 300,000 years ago if we didn't develop these extensions of our physical form necessary to cook and process meat We have brains that require high quality animal fats to function What is domestication? Humans were the first domesticated species - we domesticated ourselves Our teeth got smaller as we started relying on processing food outside of our bodies If we had absolutely nothing and were left to survive, the first thing we'd have to do is create a tool or control fire. Our body can do almost nothing on it's own Our food technology tracked with our body and brain size over history Almost all our modern produce was at one point toxic Nobody knows our exact diet 300k years ago, but that doesn't matter - we have certain nutritional requirements that were established We accomplished the impossible back then, but even more impossible we now have gotten ourselves obese and malnourished at the same time We're using modern processing to create nutrient-free food and it is what we are basically programmed to seek out in the modern food environment He argued with a pediatrician who was demanding patients to drink skim milk We evolved away from our chimp ancestors who's digestive systems were made for digesting a ton of plant matter When we became bipedal 5-7 million years ago, everything changed Apes have to eat all day long and have giant jaw muscles to do this and tiny brains Theories on why are brains doubled in size Fat was prized for all of history Eating the ENTIRE animal White meat chicken breasts are the least nutrient dense, newest, wackiest thing we could eat His family rule is kill the animal yourself or know the person who raised and killed it Farmers markets are key The advent of agriculture can clearly be seen in the fossil record with a decrease in physical size and brain size What's the real problem with agriculture? How can we utilize modern agriculture and technology to feed the billions of earth today? Connect yourself to your food. Try foraging. Go hunting. Go to a butcher. Make the foods you like from scratch at least once. Know the story of food Focus on quality Animals are the most nutrient dense foods available, especially the organ meats, brains, marrow, etc. He spent a year abroad in places like Kenya and Mongolia and studied many hunter gatherers such as the Hadza He was with a group that brought down a genet cat and ate all the organs immediately They were continuously hunting and gathering and hide a very varied diet Picturesque physiques with wide, healthy jaws, white teeth, big smiles, almost prancing as they ran Just blood and milk diet for 6 months How to have a meaningful conversation about diet, health, and sustainability Took a year off to live with these cultures and wrote a book His TV show on NatGeo called The Great Human Race http://www.natgeotv.com/int/the-great-human-race We must use the lessons of the past to learn what to do now and the future He painstakingly made all the period-accurate clothes for the show by hand How did our ancient ancestors lived based on this knowledge? We weren't "surviving" - we must have been thriving to be able to continue having many babies who could then propagate our species Food Lab https://www.washcoll.edu/departments/eastern-shore-food-lab/ His personal site http://ancestralinsight.com Follow all his work over the past year http://FoodEvolutions.org Twitter http://twitter.com/drbillschindler Join the Sapien Movement http://SapienMovement.com Preorder the film here: http://indiegogo.com/projects/food-lies-post Film site: http://FoodLies.org YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/FoodLies Sapien Movement: http://SapienMovement.com Follow along: http://twitter.com/FoodLiesOrg http://instagram.com/food.lies http://facebook.com/FoodLiesOrg Theme music by https://kylewardmusic.com/

26 Sep 20181h 57min