PedPod by EX-PED-LAB15 Apr 2025

A conversation with Margaret Kernan

One of the people that I've learned a lot from in regard to pedagogical innovation is the founder of ICDI, Nico van Oudenhoven.
And when you first invited me to take part in this interview today, I thought of something that Nico always says to the team.
Find where the pain is, guys.
This is what our work is about.
Why are these children suffering?
What's missing here?
What's the lack?
What's the problem?
And he simply says it.
Where is the pain?
And this guides us in our work.
- Margaret Kernan

In this PedPod by EX-PED-LAB episode, Margaret Kernan explores how pedagogical innovations emerge not from novelty for novelty’s sake, but from responding meaningfully to real-world challenges—especially those affecting children in vulnerable situations. Drawing from decades of international work with the International Child Development Initiatives (ICDI), Margaret shares how initiatives like the Together Old and Young Project (TOY Project) (*note that the new website is being revamped), Toy for Inclusion and Toy for Participation use intergenerational learning to build stronger, more inclusive communities.

As in the vignette above, she emphasizes that innovation must begin with asking, “Where is the pain?”—a guiding question that helps educators and organizations design responsive, community-rooted solutions. From play hubs that bring together young children and older adults, to support for migrant families and underserved communities, Margaret advocates for creative, context-sensitive approaches that center play, belonging, and child participation.

Highlighting the importance of multidisciplinary collaboration, cultural sensitivity, and reflective practice, Margaret reminds us that innovation often lies in reclaiming the wisdom of the past—not by repeating it, but by adapting it to today’s complex educational landscapes.

With this, we welcome you to another inspiring episode of PedPod by EX-PED-LAB. Happy listening!

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