How Smart People End Up in Cults: Dr. Natalie Fabert on Gaslighting in High-Control Groups

On this episode of The Gaslight Effect Podcast, Dr. Robin Stern sits down with Dr. Natalie Fabert, a psychologist, faculty member at Arizona State University, and board member and Director of Continuing Education at the Lalich Center on Cults and Coercion. Dr. Fabert specializes in helping adults heal from trauma, abuse, and coercive control, especially in cultic and spiritually abusive environments.

Drawing on her clinical work and her role with the Lalich Center's training course for therapists, she and Robin explore how gaslighting operates not only in intimate relationships, but also in high-control groups and "cult-like" systems where unquestioned loyalty and obedience are expected.

Together, they unpack:

How gaslighting and coercive control show up in cults, spiritual communities, and other high-demand groups

Why thoughtful, intelligent, hardworking people can be drawn into abusive systems—and why "just leaving" is far more complicated than it sounds

The overlapping dynamics of narcissistic abuse, coercive control, and cult involvement

The particular challenges cult survivors face after leaving, including grief, identity loss, and complex trauma

Why therapists need to approach survivors with cultural humility and strong boundaries—and how trainings like the Lalich Center's course can help them do that more safely

This episode speaks directly to the question, "Why didn't they just leave?" Robin and Natalie offer language, validation, and hope—for survivors, for their supporters, and for the therapists who want to walk alongside them as they reclaim their reality and rebuild their lives.

To check out this and other episodes, head over to robinstern.com.

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Dr. Robin Stern's Books:

The Gaslight Effect

The Gaslight Effect Recovery Guide

Emotional Intelligence for School Leaders

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