Futurology18 Marras 2025

The Big Lie Behind AI (with Jaron Lanier and Grant Slater)

Artificial intelligence isn’t alive. But our belief that it is may be the most dangerous illusion of all. Tech leaders talk about AI as if it thinks for itself. But that fantasy hides a more nuanced story about people, power, and profit. In this episode of Futurology, musician and technologist Jaron Lanier joins Futurology Producer Grant Slater to explain why treating AI as a creature, rather than a tool, lets corporations own the work of millions and silence the humans behind the code. Lanier argues that every algorithm is built from borrowed human creativity — the songs, stories, and patterns we’ve already made. The way forward, he says, is to restore data dignity: valuing people for the music and meaning they create, instead of worshipping the machines that remix it. Resources Who Owns the Future — Jaron Lanier (Book, 2013) The Dawn of the New Everything — Jaron Lanier (Book, 2017) Vers la flamme — Alexander Scriabin (Solo Piano Piece, 1914) A Blueprint for a Better Digital Society — Jaron Lanier and E. Glen Weyl (Article, 2018) Computing Machinery and Intelligence — Alan Turing (Article, 1950) Instruments of Change — Jaron Lanier (Album, 1994) Fantasia — Walt Disney Productions (Film, 1940) Snow Crash — Neal Stephenson (Novel, 1992) Want to share suggestions or feedback? Email futurology@berggruen.org Keep up to Date with the Berggruen Institute at: https://www.berggruen.org Instagram: / berggrueninst Twitter/X: / berggrueninst Facebook: / berggrueninst LinkedIn: / berggrueninst Bluesky /futurologypod Credits Producers: Grant Slater, Alex Gardels, Nathalia Ramos Associate Producer: Elissa Mardiney Mixing & Mastering: Aaron Bastinelli Theme Music: Marcus Bagala Special Thanks: Heather Mason, Olivia de Rienzo, Carly Migliori, Nick Goddard

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There's No Such Thing as a Free Agent (with Gillian Tett and Dawn Nakagawa)

One value proposition of AI is a personalized assistant at your fingertips. Every Average Joe can now have a “pocket pixie," the kind of perk once reserved for Hollywood stars and high-powered CEOs. B...

11 Elo 1h 7min

We're Winning the Race to Replace Ourselves (with Tristan Harris and Dawn Nakagawa)

The people racing to build artificial general intelligence tell us this rush to the future is inevitable. It reads like a forecast, but works like an alibi. If nothing can stop the race, then no one d...

4 Elo 51min

Is It Awareness All the Way Down? (with Annaka Harris and Grant Slater)

Science studies the world from the outside. But for thousands of years, meditators have been running a different experiment: sit still, pay close attention, and watch what reality does. The results of...

30 Heinä 2h 7min

Can We Move Fast and Fix Things? (with Reid Hoffman and Dawn Nakagawa)

For 20 years, Silicon Valley's operating creed was 'move fast and break things'; the wreckage was the price of inventing the future. Today, we live amid that wreckage: institutions built for the last ...

21 Heinä 1h 4min

The AI CEOs Are Terrified of Themselves (with Stuart Russell and Nils Gilman)

This year, two powerful AI CEOs said they want to stop building it and will… if everyone else agrees to stop too. Yet they race ahead with stock market valuations premised on making millions of worker...

14 Heinä 1h 23min

Our Machines Evolved From Us (with Blaise Agüera y Arcas and Carlo Rovelli)

The machines were supposed to come from somewhere else as invaders. An alien intelligence, hellbent robots, a rival species. But nothing’s arrived. Instead, the machines came out of us, the same way o...

7 Heinä 1h 23min

You Have Plenty to Hide From AI (with Meredith Whittaker and Nils Gilman)

Today’s tech industry can’t survive without mass surveillance. The US government, foreign powers, and ad brokers can buy a nuanced picture of you on the open market for pennies on the dollar. What kep...

30 Kesä 50min

On Love and Quantum Physics (with Carlo Rovelli and Claire Webb)

We treat the self as bedrock. But look closely, and the ground gives way. Over the last century, quantum physics has systematically dismantled the illusion of a constant, solid material reality. A par...

23 Kesä 1h 14min