“Dealing with Russia” – A Conversation with Counterintelligence Legend Jim Olson
SpyCast12 Heinä 2022

“Dealing with Russia” – A Conversation with Counterintelligence Legend Jim Olson

Summary Jim Olson (Website) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss Putin and Russia. He had a 31-year career with the CIA including a tour in Moscow. What You’ll Learn Intelligence His views on Russia and its trajectory since the Cold War’s end His frank assessment of Putin and admiration for the Russian people His time in Moscow with 3 rotating KGB teams surveilling him His time as Chief of Station in the city of spies Vienna Reflections A “beautiful marriage” with American technology Passing the generational baton And much, much more… Episode Notes “James Olson is a legend in the clandestine service,” not my description of this week’s guest, but that of former CIA Director and Secretary of Defense Robert Gates. Jim spent 31 years in the CIA, including tours in Moscow, Vienna & Mexico City, and rose to become Chief of CIA Counterintelligence. He is the author of Fair Play and To Catch a Spy. He joined Andrew to speak about Russia. He speaks the language, spent time living and working in the country, where he was involved in one particularly daring operation that he shares with us in the episode, and he faced off against the organization that would go on to become the current SVR and FSB – the KGB. Jim has had Vladimir Putin on his radar for many a year, and he doesn’t pull any punches reflecting on his trajectory in this episode. And… Jim grew up in a small town in Iowa where, “we didn’t really follow international affairs, we joked among ourselves…if it didn’t affect the price of corn, we weren’t really interested.” My, how things changed for Jim. Quote of the Week "I have tremendous respect for the Russian people. They are long suffering. I've gotten to know many Russians. I've worked with a lot of Russians. I found them to be people who had a real soul. They had a human qualities that I could admire, but they were locked into a repressive regime that did not allow them to express any of those human sentiments that that they felt." – Jim Olson Resources Headline Resource To Catch a Spy: The Art of Counterintelligence, J. Olson (GUP, 2019) Fair Play: The Moral Dilemmas of Spying, J. Olson (Potomac, 2008) *SpyCasts* “The Spymaster’s Prism” – with Jack Devine (2021) “Russians Among Us: The Hunt for Putin’s Spies” – with Gordon Corera (2020) “The Corrupted State” – with Ilya Zaslavskiy (2016) “Putin’s End Game in Ukraine” – with KGB General (Retd.) Oleg Kalugin (2014) Beginner Resources To Catch A Spy with J. Olson, C-SPAN (2020) [9:44 minutes] The Best Books on Counterintelligence, J. Olson, Shepherd (n.d.) Putin’s Revisionist History of Russia and Ukraine, I. Chotiner, New Yorker (2022) Books Putin’s People, C. Belton (Picador, 2022) Operative in the Kremlin, F. Hill & C. Gaddy (Brookings, 2015) One Soldier’s War in Chechnya, A. Babchenko (Portobello, 2008) Articles Former CIA Leader Said LinkedIn is Like a Candy Store to China, C. Burgess, ClearanceJobs (2022) New Documentary Series Explores Pollard Affair, H. Brown, Jerusalem Post (2022) J. Olson First Recipient of “The Spirit of Aggieland – 41 Award,” J. Adams, KAGS (2022) Ex-CIA Chief on Accused Chinese Spymaster, P. Christian, WCPO (2021) Videos To Catch A Spy with J. Olson, Houston World Affairs Council (2020) Primary Sources James Collins Oral History, US Ambassador to Soviet Union, 1997-2001 (n.d.) Jack Matlock Oral History, US Ambassador to Soviet Union, 1987-1991, (n.d.) Ukraine: Memo. On Security Assurances (1994) Belovezha Accords, Eyewitness Account of Former Belarus Soviet Leader (1991) *Wildcard Resource* What Classic Russian Literature Can Teach us about Putin’s War on Ukraine Putin is a big fan of Dostoevsky – who underwent a mock execution & four years of hard labor in Siberia for belonging to a literary discussion group feared by the Tsarist autocracy. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jaksot(726)

The Lumumba Plot: Cold War in the Congo

The Lumumba Plot: Cold War in the Congo

The Congo was just gaining its independence from Belgium in 1960 when its first democratically elected leader, Patrice Lumumba, faced an existential crisis: mutiny in his new army, followed by an unwelcome intervention by Belgian forces. Lumumba had hoped the U.S. would help, but when Washington turned its back, Lumumba turned to Moscow. And so began a CIA operation to assassinate Lumumba to stop the feared spread of Communism in Africa. The story is documented in The Lumumba Plot, a book by author Stuart Reid.  Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/ And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic,  you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

28 Loka 34min

Russian Sabotage Operations and NATO’s Complex Alliance

Russian Sabotage Operations and NATO’s Complex Alliance

Russian drones and warplanes have been increasingly breaching the airspace of NATO countries. Admiral Joachim Rühle, (ret.) is the former Chief of Staff of the Supreme Headquarters Allied Powers Europe, the headquarters of Command Operations - including defense, deterrence, and training to Ukrainians - in Belgium. He talked about Moscow’s incursions, its acts of sabotage, and how to manage this complex alliance. Prefer to watch your podcasts? Find us on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/@IntlSpyMuseum/podcasts.  Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/  And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org.  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

21 Loka 29min

Opening the Foreign Influence Toolkit

Opening the Foreign Influence Toolkit

Jessica Brandt knows a lot about influence. She was the director of the Foreign Malign Influence Center, which served as intermediary between the U.S. intelligence community and the public. It alerted private citizens and the public to disinformation operations orchestrated by adversaries overseas. Jessica explains how the toolkit has gotten larger, more sophisticated, and is being wielded by more countries than ever before. Prefer to watch your podcasts? Find us on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/@IntlSpyMuseum/podcasts.  Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/  And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org.  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

14 Loka 32min

From the SpyCast Vault: An Assassination in Mexico

From the SpyCast Vault: An Assassination in Mexico

Keith Melton is a historian who’s been an advisor to the US Intelligence Community for decades. An avid collector and board member at The International Spy Museum, Keith has donated thousands of artifacts, and one of the most historically important is the axe used to assassinate Leon Trotsky. Keith found the weapon after decades of searching. In 2007,  he spoke with Peter Earnest, the founding executive director of the International Spy Museum, about Trotsky’s assassination and tracking down the  weapon used for the job. Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/ And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic,  you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org,  "This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC." Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

30 Syys 30min

The Dark Web Broker

The Dark Web Broker

Vinny Troia is at home on the Dark Web. The veteran hacker has developed relationships with cyberactors who have quietly stolen sensitive data from the far corners of the world. Vinny sells that data to law enforcement and intelligence agencies, like the CIA. His book, Grey Area: Dark Web Data Collection and the Future of OSINT, is out this October. Prefer to watch your podcasts? Find us on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/@IntlSpyMuseum/podcasts.  Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/  And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org.  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

23 Syys 35min

 To Catch a Drug Cartel

To Catch a Drug Cartel

Keith Bulfin was a banker, not a spy. But then came a special client–a supposed coffee importer who was actually a banker for Mexican and Colombian drug cartels. Soon, U.S. authorities were knocking on Keith’s door. He ended up behind bars in a maximum security prison. While in prison, Bulfin ended up befriending leaders of drug cartels and eventually became their private banker, while secretly feeding intelligence to the U.S. government. It was a descent into a world few see and fewer survive. Prefer to watch your podcasts? Find us on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/@IntlSpyMuseum/podcasts.  Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/  And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org.  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

16 Syys 28min

Retracing the Hunt for Bin Laden

Retracing the Hunt for Bin Laden

This Thursday marks the 24th anniversary of the September 11th terrorist attacks, which spawned a decade-long search for the man behind them – Osama Bin Laden. Ed Bogan was the Chief of Operations for the CIA Counterterrorism Center’s Pakistan / Afghanistan Department. He takes us into agency headquarters, where he oversaw the raid on Bin Laden’s compound, and tells us what lessons can be learned from The Global War on Terror. Prefer to watch your podcasts? Find us on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/@IntlSpyMuseum/podcasts.  Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/  And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org.  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

9 Syys 35min

An Assassination in Athens and a CIA Officer’s Legacy

An Assassination in Athens and a CIA Officer’s Legacy

It’s been 50 years since the assassination of the CIA’s former Station Chief in Athens, Richard Welch. At the time, he was the agency’s highest level officer killed in the line of duty. A Greek, Marxist terrorist group called 17 November claimed responsibility for his death, but that was just the beginning. Former senior operations officer Ralph Mariani remembers that time and carries on Welch’s memory. Prefer to watch your podcasts? Find us on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/@IntlSpyMuseum/podcasts.  Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/  And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org.  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

2 Syys 31min

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