“Dealing with Russia” – A Conversation with Counterintelligence Legend Jim Olson
SpyCast12 Heinä 2022

“Dealing with Russia” – A Conversation with Counterintelligence Legend Jim Olson

Summary Jim Olson (Website) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss Putin and Russia. He had a 31-year career with the CIA including a tour in Moscow. What You’ll Learn Intelligence His views on Russia and its trajectory since the Cold War’s end His frank assessment of Putin and admiration for the Russian people His time in Moscow with 3 rotating KGB teams surveilling him His time as Chief of Station in the city of spies Vienna Reflections A “beautiful marriage” with American technology Passing the generational baton And much, much more… Episode Notes “James Olson is a legend in the clandestine service,” not my description of this week’s guest, but that of former CIA Director and Secretary of Defense Robert Gates. Jim spent 31 years in the CIA, including tours in Moscow, Vienna & Mexico City, and rose to become Chief of CIA Counterintelligence. He is the author of Fair Play and To Catch a Spy. He joined Andrew to speak about Russia. He speaks the language, spent time living and working in the country, where he was involved in one particularly daring operation that he shares with us in the episode, and he faced off against the organization that would go on to become the current SVR and FSB – the KGB. Jim has had Vladimir Putin on his radar for many a year, and he doesn’t pull any punches reflecting on his trajectory in this episode. And… Jim grew up in a small town in Iowa where, “we didn’t really follow international affairs, we joked among ourselves…if it didn’t affect the price of corn, we weren’t really interested.” My, how things changed for Jim. Quote of the Week "I have tremendous respect for the Russian people. They are long suffering. I've gotten to know many Russians. I've worked with a lot of Russians. I found them to be people who had a real soul. They had a human qualities that I could admire, but they were locked into a repressive regime that did not allow them to express any of those human sentiments that that they felt." – Jim Olson Resources Headline Resource To Catch a Spy: The Art of Counterintelligence, J. Olson (GUP, 2019) Fair Play: The Moral Dilemmas of Spying, J. Olson (Potomac, 2008) *SpyCasts* “The Spymaster’s Prism” – with Jack Devine (2021) “Russians Among Us: The Hunt for Putin’s Spies” – with Gordon Corera (2020) “The Corrupted State” – with Ilya Zaslavskiy (2016) “Putin’s End Game in Ukraine” – with KGB General (Retd.) Oleg Kalugin (2014) Beginner Resources To Catch A Spy with J. Olson, C-SPAN (2020) [9:44 minutes] The Best Books on Counterintelligence, J. Olson, Shepherd (n.d.) Putin’s Revisionist History of Russia and Ukraine, I. Chotiner, New Yorker (2022) Books Putin’s People, C. Belton (Picador, 2022) Operative in the Kremlin, F. Hill & C. Gaddy (Brookings, 2015) One Soldier’s War in Chechnya, A. Babchenko (Portobello, 2008) Articles Former CIA Leader Said LinkedIn is Like a Candy Store to China, C. Burgess, ClearanceJobs (2022) New Documentary Series Explores Pollard Affair, H. Brown, Jerusalem Post (2022) J. Olson First Recipient of “The Spirit of Aggieland – 41 Award,” J. Adams, KAGS (2022) Ex-CIA Chief on Accused Chinese Spymaster, P. Christian, WCPO (2021) Videos To Catch A Spy with J. Olson, Houston World Affairs Council (2020) Primary Sources James Collins Oral History, US Ambassador to Soviet Union, 1997-2001 (n.d.) Jack Matlock Oral History, US Ambassador to Soviet Union, 1987-1991, (n.d.) Ukraine: Memo. On Security Assurances (1994) Belovezha Accords, Eyewitness Account of Former Belarus Soviet Leader (1991) *Wildcard Resource* What Classic Russian Literature Can Teach us about Putin’s War on Ukraine Putin is a big fan of Dostoevsky – who underwent a mock execution & four years of hard labor in Siberia for belonging to a literary discussion group feared by the Tsarist autocracy. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Russia's Fake Identity Assembly Line in Brazil

Russia's Fake Identity Assembly Line in Brazil

When a Russian spy was arrested in Brazil in 2022, authorities were shocked to discover that he seemed to have a real birth certificate and authentic citizenship documents. The incident sparked a multi-year investigation that uncovered a network of Russian operatives living and working in Brazil – Their false identities supported by genuine documents. New York Times journalist Jane Bradley, who investigated the spy network, joined us to discuss the case as Brazilian law enforcement continues to piece together answers today.  If you liked this episode, check out these links: Ghost Stories: The Hunt for Russian Spies in the US | SpyCast "The Minions": Putin's Expendable Spies | SpyCast Curator's Corner: Kevin P. Riehle on Russian Intelligence Prefer to watch your podcasts? Find us on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/@IntlSpyMuseum/podcasts.  Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/  And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org.  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

1 Heinä 202531min

Breaking the Silence: Coming Out in the CIA

Breaking the Silence: Coming Out in the CIA

Emerging alongside Joseph McCarthy’s Red Scare in the 1950s was the Lavender Scare: Widespread panic and paranoia over the inclusion of gay personnel in the federal government. Their perceived dangers led to the terminations and forced resignations of thousands. Fast forward to 1988 – Tracey Ballard, who worked at the CIA, headed in to take a polygraph exam. Not sure what would happen next, she did something no one else ever had – She told her polygrapher, ‘I’m a lesbian.’ Trace became the first openly gay CIA employee, and spent the next decade of her career fighting for inclusion, acceptance, and kindness within the agency. Her story highlights the critical importance of diversity, and the beauty in recognizing the things that make us different as well as the shared values that bring us all together. From all of us at the International Spy Museum, we are proud to celebrate the LGBTQ+ community this Pride month and beyond.  If you liked this episode, check out these links: Hack to the Future with Emily Crose Agents of Change: African American Professionals in the Intelligence Community Reflect The Sisterhood with Liza Mundy Prefer to watch your podcasts? Find us on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/@IntlSpyMuseum/podcasts.  Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/  And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org.  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

24 Kesä 202532min

A Conversation with House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence Chairman

A Conversation with House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence Chairman

What should the US Intelligence Community prioritize domestically and overseas, and how should the work be done? We sat down with Congressman Rick Crawford, Chairman of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, to learn his perspective on these questions. The conversation emphasized the growing threat of China’s influence in the West, the impact of the new Open Source Intelligence Subcommittee, and the importance of analytic integrity in intelligence.  If you liked this episode, check out these links: Spy Chat with Chris Costa | Special Guest: Beth Sanner Dir. of National Intelligence Roundtable: 2025 Society for Intelligence History Panel An Evening with H.R. McMaster Prefer to watch your podcasts? Find us on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/@IntlSpyMuseum/podcasts.  Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/  And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org.  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

17 Kesä 202532min

Ghost Stories: The Hunt for Russian Spies in the US

Ghost Stories: The Hunt for Russian Spies in the US

In the early 2000s, the FBI uncovered a team of Russian operatives who had been living double lives in the United States. They were posing as professors, journalists, financial planners, real estate and travel agents, all while sending information back to Moscow. Now, 15 years after they were arrested, Alan Kohler, the former Assistant Director of the FBI's Counterintelligence Division, tells us what it was like to supervise the case which came to be known as Operation Ghost Stories.  In this episode, Alan mentions a number of different photos and videos from the Ghost Stories investigation. You can view them all here through the FBI’s digital vault.  If you liked this episode, check out these links: "The Minions": Putin's Expendable Spies Spy Chat with Chris Costa | Guest: Alan E. Kohler, Jr. Curator's Corner: Kevin P. Riehle on Russian Intelligence Prefer to watch your podcasts? Find us on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/@IntlSpyMuseum/podcasts.  Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/  And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org.  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

10 Kesä 202531min

The Secret Navy and Their Hunt for a Nazi Sub

The Secret Navy and Their Hunt for a Nazi Sub

How do you catch an enemy’s submarine … and then make it vanish? That’s what the U.S. Navy’s elusive Tenth Fleet planned, as it tracked down Germany’s U-505 submarine. The mission came right before the Allies ran ashore on the beaches of Normandy in World War II. Historian Alexander Rose draws on long classified documents and intercepted transmissions to reveal the bold, salt-soaked heist. Alex's new book, Phantom Fleet: The Hunt for Nazi Submarine U-505 and World War II’s Most Daring Heist  is available now. If you liked this episode, check out these links: Agent Zo: The Extraordinary Woman Who Parachuted Into Nazi-Occupied Poland Enigma Traitors with Dermot Turing The Heavy Water Sabotage Raid Prefer to watch your podcasts? Find us on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/@IntlSpyMuseum/podcasts.  Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/  And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org.  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

3 Kesä 202533min

How Are Shifting Priorities Impacting National Security in America?

How Are Shifting Priorities Impacting National Security in America?

Most Americans would agree that the United States should be protected, but from whom … and how? Dr. Donell Harvin, the former Chief of Homeland Security and Intelligence for the District of Columbia, says the U.S. is taking its eye off the ball - focusing its large domestic intelligence apparatus in a direction that is politically expedient, but not in line with the most serious threats. If you liked this episode, check out these links: ​​ DOGE Layoffs and the Counterintelligence Threats They Pose | SpyCast Spy Chat with Chris Costa | Special Guest: Colin Clarke Prefer to watch your podcasts? Find us on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/@IntlSpyMuseum/podcasts.  Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/  And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org.  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

27 Touko 202527min

Sharing Intelligence: Challenges between US and Ukraine

Sharing Intelligence: Challenges between US and Ukraine

After Russia’s full scale invasion of Ukraine, the U.S. rushed to create a secret center that set targets for the Ukrainians to destroy. But the counteroffensive of 2023 failed to achieve its goals. So, what went wrong? New York Times reporter Adam Entous spent more than a year reporting on this story. He joins SpyCast host Sasha Ingber to talk about what was going on behind the scenes, and the consequences that were felt acutely on the battlefield. Read Adam’s full report here.  The International Spy Museum has launched its first ever digital exhibition: Open Source: Ukraine & The Intelligence Revolution. Give it a visit to learn more about the role of publicly accessible information in intelligence collection and analysis.  If you liked this episode, check out these links: SpyCast Live: Escalation: Tracking the US-Ukraine Relationship An Evening with General David H. Petraeus SpyCast - “Zelensky, Ukraine & Intelligence” – with Simon Shuster Prefer to watch your podcasts? Find us on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/@IntlSpyMuseum/podcasts.  Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/  And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org.  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

20 Touko 202531min

Stories From the President's Daily Brief

Stories From the President's Daily Brief

Conflict has been escalating between two nuclear powers–India and Pakistan. It started in April, after India blamed Pakistan for supporting militants who carried out a massacre in Kashmir. President Trump offered to help defuse the tensions.Throughout history, India and Pakistan’s hostility has been documented in the President's Daily Brief, a highly classified rundown of threats facing the United States. Former CIA officer David Priess, author of The President's Book of Secrets, tells us how the PDB mattered in relations between India and Pakistan. To learn more, check out David’s book, the President's Book of Secrets, the Untold Story of Intelligence briefings to America's Presidents. If you liked this episode, check out these links: Spy Chat with Chris Costa | Special Guest: Beth Sanner The President's Book of Secrets - Understanding the President’s Daily Brief (PDB) with David Priess Hot Topics: Intelligence Challenges in an Election Year Prefer to watch your podcasts? Find us on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/@IntlSpyMuseum/podcasts.  Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/  And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org.  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

13 Touko 202523min

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